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Utah Man 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: November 14 2007 Location: Utah Status: Offline Points: 1014 |
 Topic: Please, a few minutes of your timePosted: December 10 2007 at 13:18 |
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Again, this info helps Cert. i'm going to have to experiment more with compression it appears. I have - on the guitar anyway - two stages of compression: a. the input signal...an inline boss pedal. b. then the master is compressed via software. glad you liked "Song 2" thanks. as far as i'm concerned, that one is "ready"  as always, Grazie per il vostro tempo
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: December 06 2007 at 03:56 |
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I didn't mean that - I mean it sounds like at least one instrument is out of tune slightly. I could probably listen again and tell you which one - which string, even, but don't know how much value that would add.
The number of parts seem OK - they achieve a good texture, which would be thinner if you removed one of them
2:1 is good for guitars as a *general* rule - but it sounds more like 5 - I can't hear many peaks and troughs - it's too smooth (for my taste!).
Where did you add the compression? The input signal (ie, pre - at the guitar amp), to the track (ie post), to the master - or a combination?
The general rule I use with compression (and this is probably basic stuff to you, but I'm going to list it anyway!);
1. Get the sound you want from your guitar.
2. Record it.
3. Check that the recording sounds the way you intended - do a bit of EQ'ing to shape it if necessary, maybe add light effects.
4. Repeat for the other instrumental parts.
5. Focus on how the sound you recorded at 1. comes across through the mix - the other instruments reshape the sonic qualities.
6. Re-EQ and effect as necessary, then add a compressor to the end of the chain on that track.
7. Set compressor ratio to no greater than 2:1 (unless the performance was really ham-handed, your mic is over sensitive or something else that has created huge spikes - if the part has one or two really large spikes, you can always perform a little "surgery" in software - snip them out. In most cases, they're like appendixes - no-one will miss them!).
8. Oh. I forgot to say. Use a decent compressor that allows you to adjust the input and output gain. Once you've set your ratio, you can then add a little "sparkle" to the track simply by upping the output - but don't let it hang out too much in the red, or the track will "pump".
9. Listen to the track in the mix - as you did at 5, and verify that this is still the sound you want.
I'll rip the others apart when I get a moment - I heard a bit of Song 2 and really dug the Mellotron
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Utah Man
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 14 2007 Location: Utah Status: Offline Points: 1014 |
Posted: December 05 2007 at 12:20 |
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Me too
agree...sounds tinny to me.
agree, i was wondering about this particular issue, & that's why i panned.
maybe use less guitars...i don't know.
agree...but i only filtered it at 2:1 i think...maybe 5:1
i've thought about maybe just dumping it...it seems to cause EQ problems for me.
It's negative constructive not negative destructive
Thanks -- Again Thanks Cert for the wisdom  |
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Utah Man
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 14 2007 Location: Utah Status: Offline Points: 1014 |
Posted: December 05 2007 at 11:53 |
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Cert,
these are exactly the type of comments i need . (of course i do appreciate those who like the songs...) i need this technical input. 1. i don't have studio monitors per se...only some guitar amps...so i'm not really hearing these tunes like i should be from an engineering point of view. i'm going to suffer greatly regarding EQ. 2. EQ is my biggest concern. digital seems to be inherently very shrill, very bright. most of this was recorded non-analog, digital only. 3. Compression is my next biggest concern. song 1 - i think the whole song i compressed too much. when is there too much compression and when is there not enough ? As far as panning goes, i don't know when i'm over doing it. Is there such a thing as too much stereo ? the recording process itself is easy compared to the overall process of mixing. mixing is soooooo time consuming  Again Cert a very big THANK YOU for taking the time to listen, evaluate, and comment.. i will take to heart this info...it will probably take sometime to sink in my head of course. . |
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: December 05 2007 at 04:24 |
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I need to listen a few more times to get a better handle on what I think you're trying to achieve, but first impressions on Song 1 (apologies that they're only negative, but I always hear the negative first whenever I hear music - I'm just a born critic
 )
1. Intonation seems a little dodgy for the first part, up to the explosion.
2. Be careful of keeping so many instruments in the same register - some of the music gets lost because they're all sharing the same freq range. Maybe some careful (read pain-in-the-butt) EQing would sort this out - you've clearly had a go with panning, and this does fix some of the issues, but I think it needs attention here;
My suggestions are to use a graphic EQ to locate the "sweet spots" of the instruments, and, if there's significant overlap (which there probably will be), then it's compromise time; Give a slight boost to non-clashing freq ranges for each instrument, and make a slight cut in the others.
This is a pain in the proverbial, because it inevitably means that individually, the instruments may start sounding a little wierd - and you can easily screw up the entire mix - and it's hideously time-consuming. However, it will stop parts becoming muddled up and lost in each other - and I'm not totally convinced by the guitar sounds early on anyway - I think the freq clashes are warping the sonic goodness slightly.
3. Maybe these parts are over-compressed? I'm showing my immature studio ears here, because it's a total guess. I find the sound of the instruments seem to lack dynamic and "realism" in this early part.
4. Not quite sure what's happening with that explosion effect - I have nothing against its use, as I've done the same thing in my song "Avoiding" (plug, plug!). What I mean is that it sounds like a sound effect - there's little presence to it, caused mainly by the lack of bass - which is probably the fault of the sample. Maybe pulling out some freqs in the midrange would help this - and maybe a little low-end boost (I'm always reluctant to suggest boosting anything in EQ, as one should always cut ranges instead - however, that's the "hard" option
 ).Again, sorry for focussing on the negative - and please remember that as far as engineering goes, I still consider myself a newbie - it's all been learned "on the job", as it were. I almost did a sound engineering course once, but had to decline the place as I couldn't get funding
 The point is, I don't expect you to agree with everything I've commented on.The music sounds good, BTW - but I didn't really listen to what you were doing, as I focussed entirely on tech stuff. I'm not a good multi-tasker... Edited by Certif1ed - December 05 2007 at 04:26 |
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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R o V e R
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 13 2005 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 2747 |
Posted: December 03 2007 at 15:16 |
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Utah Man
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 14 2007 Location: Utah Status: Offline Points: 1014 |
Posted: December 03 2007 at 15:11 |
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You mean Gentle Giant ? Who are they ?  . |
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R o V e R
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 13 2005 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 2747 |
Posted: December 03 2007 at 14:43 |
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oOOpssy,... ,..
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Utah Man
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 14 2007 Location: Utah Status: Offline Points: 1014 |
Posted: December 03 2007 at 14:41 |
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Thank You Logan, Yea...i need someone here in the PA Forum who has really good "technical" ears...someone who can hear stuff like, e.g. too much bass or not enough compression, frequency collisions, etc. etc. Right now you guys are my "Producer"  basically, i'm a poor man & don't have the $ to visit some Salt Lake City based recording studio. Music people here in Utah are not generally too interested in Progressive music...just heavy metal, country, disposable pop, oh...and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir ... collectively, this forum has members whom i trust regarding music (well..at least most i trust anyway ).. Edited by Utah Man - December 03 2007 at 15:08 |
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R o V e R
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 13 2005 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 2747 |
Posted: December 03 2007 at 14:38 |
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Glassy is fan of Gentle Giant , Listen to the Band,..
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glass house
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 16 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 4986 |
Posted: December 03 2007 at 14:33 |
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No. As everybody I have thoughts about music, but i also think you must develop your own ideas about the songs. At the same time feedback is a good thing.
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Utah Man
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 14 2007 Location: Utah Status: Offline Points: 1014 |
Posted: December 03 2007 at 14:30 |
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Thank you Are you a musician ? . |
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glass house
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 16 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 4986 |
Posted: December 03 2007 at 14:23 |
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I just like the sound of your music. Great!! |
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 35719 |
Posted: December 03 2007 at 14:16 |
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My pleasure, just sorry that I can't offer much in the way of erudite observations and suggestions. But thanks...Yeah, I meant the harp sound which doesn't sound too compressed to my ear (and I like the amount of reverb), but I love all of the parts of your songs. As for the thunder sound, something like the Prisoner opening perhaps: CLICK I was actually kind of thinking of a thunder sound with a fair amount of reverb. Like your left/ right channel idea; the idea of an instrumental conversation. Sounds good. |
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Utah Man
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 14 2007 Location: Utah Status: Offline Points: 1014 |
Posted: December 03 2007 at 13:56 |
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thank you logan for taking time to listen to these thunder...i never thought of that ...cool. the explosion sounds too muffled ? ok , i guess i EQ'd it too much.
you mean the harp sound (mellotron) ? does it sound too compressed ? to much reverb or is it OK ?
good advice. in the acoustic section i plan on adding more electric guitar solo stuff - like they're "talking" to each other, then separate those via right channel / left channel or something.
absolutely NOT ... i love this input and interaction from all you guys i value the advice, input, music reviews, etc. more from ProgArchives than if i had a review from, say, Rolling Stone magazine...sheesh..they're just a bunch of professionally paid musical-review weenies again Logan, thank you for your time  . Edited by Utah Man - December 03 2007 at 13:59 |
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 35719 |
Posted: December 03 2007 at 13:09 |
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Very good. I might replace the muffled explosion with thunder. In song one I might add some intermittent washboard for percussive effect. Nice atmosphere and shifts (love it at about 3:12). Some very good transitions. I'd add the sound of more instruments in places so that repeated phrases can build up, as well as for harmonic value. Very good tracks as it is, but I'd layer it a little more and add counterpoint in places. I don't think it needs drums, I'd rather the percussion come from other instruments on the whole. Ah, and if you have a xylophone....
Ah, I'm talking nonsense, it's very good as it is, and as you say, it's not the final production (the inclusion of acoustic instruments does tend to make something sound richer and fuller, if you know people who could play parts for it later -- I've never found the mellotron (or midi of course) or such keyboards to be an adequate substitute -- less vibrant). But, I think it's great, really. Edited by Logan - December 03 2007 at 13:10 |
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avestin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 18 2005 Status: Offline Points: 12625 |
Posted: December 03 2007 at 12:54 |
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Sounds like a good idea.
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Utah Man
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 14 2007 Location: Utah Status: Offline Points: 1014 |
Posted: December 03 2007 at 12:51 |
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i have several other versions of it... that sound originated from a WW II era U.S. Navy Destroyer...then i added lots of reverb and i think i may have compressed it too. i wanted it to have a "pan out" effect to sound like it keeps on going till the guitar comes in. . |
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R o V e R
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 13 2005 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 2747 |
Posted: December 03 2007 at 12:49 |
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Hey,.. I'm not using Microsoft anymore,. mine is Powerbook G4 (MAC)
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Utah Man
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 14 2007 Location: Utah Status: Offline Points: 1014 |
Posted: December 03 2007 at 12:40 |
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Microsoft OS ?
agree. dean's version is too sinister looking . |
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Certif1ed wrote: