| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
progismylife 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2006
Location: ibreathehelium
Status: Offline
Points: 15535
|
 Topic: Towards Finding An 8th Classic Prog Rock Band
Posted: November 09 2007 at 19:55 |
|
I think it is a battle between VdGG and PFM (for me at least). I haven't heard much from any of these bands but from what I have heard I think these two bands would be good representatives.
I voted VdGG because they are one of the main prog bands I think of when showing people prog.
|
 |
jimmy_row
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 11 2007
Location: Hibernation
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
|
Posted: November 08 2007 at 01:33 |
^^ ELP have plenty of fans, it's just that many people don't get them and assign ridiculously bad ratings/reviews without listening to the music...if you want to see something interesting then go to rateyourmusic.com and skim down through the top 500 lists for 1971, 72, 73 and see how long it takes to bump into and ELP album...you'll see some pretty surprising stuff ahead of them 
|
|
Signature Writers Guild on strike
|
|
ghost_of_morphy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
|
Posted: November 07 2007 at 11:30 |
 efoman wrote:
At the risk of exposing my geekiness I will share the results of my experiment:
I looked at the Top 500 albums list and assigned points to the people mentioned there. Right now Wish You Were Here is #1,,,,so it got 500 pts. for Pink Floyd, Thick as a Brick was #2, so 499 pts. for Jethro Tull.....on and on until #500 which yielded 1 pt for someone. So I went through the whole list to see which bands amassed the most total points. I know this isn't conclusive because there are a myriad of factors involved (i.e. DVDs are included, which are a recent phenomenon), but I hought it would be interesting to compare with the bands mentioned in this thread.
Here's how they fared in this calculation:
Of the 7 great prog bands listed:
#2 Genesis (3064 pts)
#4 Pink Floyd (2798)
#6 King Crimson (2718)
#7 Yes (2547)
#10 Rush (2366)
#30 Jethro Tull (1021)
#66 ELP (538)
As for the bands nominated from this poll:
#3 Frank Zappa (2848)
#5 Gentle Giant (2730)
#11 Premiata Forneria Marconi (2051)
#12 Camel (1954)
#13 Van der Graaf Generator (1774)
#16 Marillion (1303)
#19 Caravan (1205)
#20 Magma (1177)
#24 Iron Maiden (1094)
#25 Mike Oldfield (1085)
#27 Tangerine Dream (1058)
#32 Le Orme (931)
The Moody Blues didn't make the top 100 groups but they did have one of the most loved albums in Days of Future Passed which was at the forefront of the birth of prog.
If you're wondering which are the top groups not mentioned previously:
#23 Steve Hackett
#22 BDMM
#21 Peter Gabriel
#18 Los Jaivas
#17 The Beatles
#15 S.B.B.
#14 Fates Warning
and three top ten groups:
#9 Pain of Salvation
#8 Dream Theater
and with 3230 pts., the #1 group in this experiment (drumroll please)....
PORCUPINE TREE !!
I was surprised. I also make no claims that these are the best groups. I agree with the assumptions as to the Big 7 made in this poll, and I voted for VDGG to be #8, which I feel they are already.
I just thought you may find this interesting. |
I do find that interesting. And it leads me to the conclusion that I did a pretty good job in picking worthwhile nominees.
It's a shame that ELP aren't as appreciated as they should be.
|
|
Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
|
Posted: November 07 2007 at 10:52 |
What, like these aren't classics already? And what the hell are Iron Maiden doing in the poll? 
|
|
efoman
Forum Groupie
Joined: May 28 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 79
|
Posted: November 07 2007 at 10:37 |
At the risk of exposing my geekiness I will share the results of my experiment:
I looked at the Top 500 albums list and assigned points to the people mentioned there. Right now Wish You Were Here is #1,,,,so it got 500 pts. for Pink Floyd, Thick as a Brick was #2, so 499 pts. for Jethro Tull.....on and on until #500 which yielded 1 pt for someone. So I went through the whole list to see which bands amassed the most total points. I know this isn't conclusive because there are a myriad of factors involved (i.e. DVDs are included, which are a recent phenomenon), but I hought it would be interesting to compare with the bands mentioned in this thread.
Here's how they fared in this calculation:
Of the 7 great prog bands listed:
#2 Genesis (3064 pts)
#4 Pink Floyd (2798)
#6 King Crimson (2718)
#7 Yes (2547)
#10 Rush (2366)
#30 Jethro Tull (1021)
#66 ELP (538)
As for the bands nominated from this poll:
#3 Frank Zappa (2848)
#5 Gentle Giant (2730)
#11 Premiata Forneria Marconi (2051)
#12 Camel (1954)
#13 Van der Graaf Generator (1774)
#16 Marillion (1303)
#19 Caravan (1205)
#20 Magma (1177)
#24 Iron Maiden (1094)
#25 Mike Oldfield (1085)
#27 Tangerine Dream (1058)
#32 Le Orme (931)
The Moody Blues didn't make the top 100 groups but they did have one of the most loved albums in Days of Future Passed which was at the forefront of the birth of prog.
If you're wondering which are the top groups not mentioned previously:
#23 Steve Hackett
#22 BDMM
#21 Peter Gabriel
#18 Los Jaivas
#17 The Beatles
#15 S.B.B.
#14 Fates Warning
and three top ten groups:
#9 Pain of Salvation
#8 Dream Theater
and with 3230 pts., the #1 group in this experiment (drumroll please)....
PORCUPINE TREE !!
I was surprised. I also make no claims that these are the best groups. I agree with the assumptions as to the Big 7 made in this poll, and I voted for VDGG to be #8, which I feel they are already.
I just thought you may find this interesting.
Edited by efoman - November 07 2007 at 10:39
|
|
kenethlevine
Special Collaborator
Prog-Folk Team
Joined: December 06 2006
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 9093
|
Posted: November 07 2007 at 09:52 |
ghost_of_morphy wrote:
[QUOTE=kenethlevine]
It never even occurred to me to list the Strawbs as an option. |
One thing about Strawbs, it's hard to find bands who could be considered Strawbs clones even if specific songs by later bands do have a strawbs feel. This could be construed as meaning they had little influence, or perhaps that they had a style that was very hard to imitate, as they were very chameleon like. Yet at the same time they were very recognizable mostly because of Dave Cousins' voice, whom almost no one sounds like.
From a commercial perspective, 2 huge UK albums (Grave New World and Bursting at the Seams) and 2 huge North American albums (Hero and Heroine and Ghosts) would qualify them more than VDGG or Gentle Giant. And considering that those 4 albums are all quite progressive, it's not too much of a stretch. Nonetheless, as much as I love them, I don't think they qualify for big 8 status in prog the way Camel or even the Moodys do, or maybe even Mike Oldfield or TD,. all of whom had many imitators and lots of influence, and stayed prog for longer.
Edited by kenethlevine - November 07 2007 at 09:55
|
|
zbida
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 16 2006
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 748
|
Posted: November 07 2007 at 04:05 |
Simply C A M E L. No contest. 
Followed by VDGG (if possible).
|
|
Casartelli
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 17 2006
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 401
|
Posted: November 07 2007 at 03:53 |
I went with Marillion and mainly for the reason that the big seven were all big in the 70s and only partially still relatively big after that (Rush and KC came out with credible output and I'm unsure about Tull). Next to being big, the seven of them more or less span the mainstream core of prog, going from hardcore symphonic (Genesis, Yes), via experimental value (Pink Floyd, King Crimson) to hard prog (Rush). Not dismissing Tull and ELP, just didn't know where to put them in this rough list. 
I won't dismiss the importance of VDGG and GG, the outstanding quality of Camel or the historical importance of Days Of Future Passed, but when looking how the seven first mentioned span 'most of' the prog world, I think Marillion is the band that could add most independent new qualities to it.
|
|
Nucleus
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 03 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 62
|
Posted: November 06 2007 at 14:41 |
Mmmm... Moody Blues or Tangerine Dream?
I went with the Moodies. But really, any of those bands could be potentially seen as the eighth (that's why there are only seven)
|
|
Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
|
Posted: November 06 2007 at 14:18 |
stonebeard wrote:
refugee wrote:
VdGG of course. They probably had a much bigger influence on Genesis than people tend to think. I´m not sure if we would have had Supper´s Ready without A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers. Gabriel also ”stole” Hammill´s pun on night/knight (Hammill: ”And now my knights are numbered too”, Gabriel: ”Dancing with the moonlit knight”). Hammill even inspired punk, but that´s a different story …  |
I think knight/night is an obvious pun and had to be used at least sometime before Hammill. |
I've always considered that Nights in White Satin was a bit of a Knight/Night pun - the following line, 'Never reaching the end', makes a little more sense that way.
|
|
What?
|
|
Zargus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 08 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 3491
|
Posted: November 06 2007 at 12:14 |
|
VdGG followed by Caravan, voted for caravan since they realy need some votes, amazing band, allso IMO vdgg was, is the best prog band ever so i whuld kick out rush and add vdgg, and then add caravan as the 8th. But on the same time all thos bands & artists listed are great and deservs atention.
|
|
|
|
ghost_of_morphy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
|
Posted: November 06 2007 at 11:58 |
kenethlevine wrote:
I'm torn between Camel and the Moody Blues, but would have to choose Camel because the Moodys were more artsy psych than prog. I am also surpriseed Strawbs don't get a mention, but I suppose they were more folk rock than prog. Camel was prog most of the time, even through most of their 80s work, and they influenced an incredible number of mdern day prog bands. |
I'm surprised the Moodies aren't getting more votes too. For those who are using influence and being well-known and longevity as their criteria, the Moodies should get a lot of consideration. The same goes for PFM, of course.
It never even occurred to me to list the Strawbs as an option.
|
|
stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
|
Posted: November 06 2007 at 11:07 |
refugee wrote:
VdGG of course. They probably had a much bigger influence on Genesis than people tend to think. I´m not sure if we would have had Supper´s Ready without A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers. Gabriel also ”stole” Hammill´s pun on night/knight (Hammill: ”And now my knights are numbered too”, Gabriel: ”Dancing with the moonlit knight”). Hammill even inspired punk, but that´s a different story … |
I think knight/night is an obvious pun and had to be used at least sometime before Hammill.
|
|
|
|
kenethlevine
Special Collaborator
Prog-Folk Team
Joined: December 06 2006
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 9093
|
Posted: November 06 2007 at 10:26 |
|
I'm torn between Camel and the Moody Blues, but would have to choose Camel because the Moodys were more artsy psych than prog. I am also surpriseed Strawbs don't get a mention, but I suppose they were more folk rock than prog. Camel was prog most of the time, even through most of their 80s work, and they influenced an incredible number of mdern day prog bands.
|
|
refugee
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: November 20 2006
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 7026
|
Posted: November 06 2007 at 09:58 |
VdGG of course. They probably had a much bigger influence on Genesis than people tend to think. I´m not sure if we would have had Supper´s Ready without A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers. Gabriel also ”stole” Hammill´s pun on night/knight (Hammill: ”And now my knights are numbered too”, Gabriel: ”Dancing with the moonlit knight”). Hammill even inspired punk, but that´s a different story …
|
|
He say nothing is quite what it seems;
I say nothing is nothing
(Peter Hammill)
|
|
micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
|
Posted: November 05 2007 at 21:07 |
ghost_of_morphy wrote:
Camel's three great albums came out 1974 -1976
ELP, KC, and Tull all had their best works behind them by
then. Floyd was doing WYWH and Animals. Genesis was doing
Lamb and Trick, while Yes did Relayer and all of the early solo
projects that followed it. Rush doesn't really start to hit their
stride until 1976.
So, yes, Camel came to prominence fairly late, but hardly TOO
late. Snowgoose was fairly well known to progheads on both sides
of the Atlantic. |
no one doubts that... and Latimer was a damn fine guitar
player.... lets face it though... Camel could have never been
born and all we would have mised was a couple good albums. Prog
would have chugged along and not missed a thing.. .we all know that
there are bands... who put out as good of quality... or better prog
albums... where are they on this list. Camel simply didn't impact
prog at all... sure it is not scientific fact.. just a little thing known
as common sense.. and little objective thought. To put them
with.. on the same level with.. the prime movers and shakers of
prog is simply ridiculous. If this a popularity contest ... then fine... then they are popular .... whoopee doo! Just change the titile to popular.. not classic prog band.. Call it what it is...
Edited by micky - November 05 2007 at 21:08
|
|
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
|
ghost_of_morphy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
|
Posted: November 05 2007 at 20:58 |
Camel's three great albums came out 1974 -1976
ELP, KC, and Tull all had their best works behind them by then. Floyd was doing WYWH. Genesis was doing Lamb and Trick, while Yes did Relayer and all of the early solo projects that followed it. Rush doesn't really start to hit their stride until 1976.
So, yes, Camel came to prominence fairly late, but hardly TOO late. Snowgoose was fairly well known to progheads on both sides of the Atlantic.
Edited by ghost_of_morphy - November 05 2007 at 21:01
|
|
crimhead
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: October 10 2006
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 19236
|
Posted: November 05 2007 at 20:35 |
jimmy_row wrote:
Thandrus wrote:
jimmy_row wrote:
(but excluding Camel ...
|
They opened new side of prog: flawless, based only and only on sheer beauty.
We're never gonna end this  . |
you mean like King Crimson in '69, Genesis in '70, and PFM in '72.
nothing against Camel, in fact they are one of my favorite bands, just not in the "premeire league" if you will - they came a few years too late, cursed only by time...we'll just have to disagree here, no harm done  |
came too late??... if you go by their bio they played from 1971-84 then 1991-....that is the same timeframe for ELP,Genesis,etc. Their only fault would be that they never got as big in America as the others.
|
|
jimmy_row
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 11 2007
Location: Hibernation
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
|
Posted: November 05 2007 at 15:29 |
Thandrus wrote:
jimmy_row wrote:
(but excluding Camel...
|
They opened new side of prog: flawless, based only and only on sheer beauty.
We're never gonna end this . |
you mean like King Crimson in '69, Genesis in '70, and PFM in '72.
nothing against Camel, in fact they are one of my favorite bands, just not in the "premeire league" if you will - they came a few years too late, cursed only by time...we'll just have to disagree here, no harm done
Edited by jimmy_row - November 05 2007 at 15:30
|
|
Signature Writers Guild on strike
|
|
Thandrus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 05 2007
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 402
|
Posted: November 05 2007 at 09:43 |
jimmy_row wrote:
(but excluding Camel...
|
They opened new side of prog: flawless, based only and only on sheer beauty.
We're never gonna end this .
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Towards Finding An 8th Classic Prog Rock Band
