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Points: 15585 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Genesis duplication
    Posted: June 03 2007 at 04:16
I guess the difference between the Pulse situation and this one with TOTT is that Pulse was already a video, the DVD simply adding some bonus material. The new TOTT is the original music, plus some film, a different media. If they had called the new release "A trick of the tail in sound and music", would we then consider it a different release? Is the problem here that is bears the same name?
 
On the other side of the coin, the news SACD prints are being called "rereleases".
 
My inclination just now is that the addtional material should be added to the original release as "bonus material". Any review of the new version can make it clear which version they are reviewing.
 
Would (should) the additional material and sound quality lead to a material change in the reviewers rating (up or down)?
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Points: 1377 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2007 at 08:06
PULSE was originally a VHS video .... it was remastered and released on DVD [for the first time] a year or so ago with lots of extras as a 2DVD set.

IMO this is either a re-issue of Trick Of The Tail or it isn't. If it is, then it should go  on the original entry.
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Points: 46301 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2007 at 06:49
I remember the Pulse conversation, it was the conflict of a new DVD based on the ORIGINAL DVD BEING REMASTERED.

I believe Trick Of The Tail SACD+DVD is the original Trick Of The Tail, in SACD version, + "DVD" material.

I agree more than anything with clearifying, but there is already a good policy that remasteres, versions, albums re-edited with bonuses and such don't get an extra addition.

It just seems that this one has a trickier thing, by being a new version of the original album, but having video material.


Edited by Ricochet - June 02 2007 at 06:50
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Points: 3089 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2007 at 05:58
I don't remember the PULSE DVD debate, but I must agree the matter is delicate and should be discussed. I also thought about this: where can be drawn the line between a re-release and a true upgrade of an original release? In this particular case things are obvious, but I'm sure there are many other albums where the line would be very difficult - if not impossible - to draw.
I'm a purist: if an album gets re-released with a couple of bonus tracks, than it's a different thing for me. I'm not advocating this position, I just want you to be aware of it. What I do advocate is to add upgraded versions as new releases, following some guidelines established upon consent with the site owners and admin team. (My own view of the guidelines would that a re-issued album needs a new entry except for the case when the bonus audio tracks are only versions/different takes or edits of the songs from the original release).
Then, in order not to make a mess with the discographies by including so many new entries, a new presentation of the Album List would be needed. I would see it like this: a main switch button that allows you to see the discography of the band in two different ways:
1. with all entries in the same list,
2. with different lists for A. original studio releases and live releases B. singles and compilations and C. re-releases ("upgrades")
I know this is more of a fantasy, for example it would be useful for those bands with huge discographies (like King Crimson), but it would only complicate things for the thousands bands with only a few releases. Maybe if there were more opinions on the matter we could get a better solution.
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Points: 1377 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2007 at 05:23
Surely it is all 'bonus material' whether it is on the same disc as the original album [like most are], or on a separate disc like here? You could argue that every album containing bonus material should be classed as a compilation. Surely, this is still fundamentally an update of the album A Trick Of The Tail? Is this not the same discussion we had with the PULSE DVD a while back?
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Points: 46301 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2007 at 04:25
Originally posted by andu andu wrote:

Well if you take a look at the link, you'll see the new version is a double disc release, one SACD and one DVD; it's got lots of new materials like video footage and multimedia tracks, a different conception. That is by no means an equivalent of the 1976 "Trick" release, but something basically different! How on Earth could the same rating apply to the 1976 8 songs vinyl LP and to this multi-layered Genesis library? IMO that would be absurd.


Spot on.

Normally, if a SACD version of Trick or a SACD version of Trick with some bonus unreleased tracks would have been the case of this addition, I would have suported the deletion of the entry. But the second CD, containing from tracks to videos, made me think this is a proper new addition.

A compilation IMO, Bob, despite being a re-released studio album. The "studio album" of it is the 1976 album, and the video material is a compiled bonus feature.


Edited by Ricochet - June 02 2007 at 04:26
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Points: 15585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2007 at 04:15

An interesting point Andu, which I had not considered.

I think we need a bit more discussion on this. What are the views of others.
 
Also, how should it be categorised then, is it a compilation?
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Points: 3089 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2007 at 17:16
Well if you take a look at the link, you'll see the new version is a double disc release, one SACD and one DVD; it's got lots of new materials like video footage and multimedia tracks, a different conception. That is by no means an equivalent of the 1976 "Trick" release, but something basically different! How on Earth could the same rating apply to the 1976 8 songs vinyl LP and to this multi-layered Genesis library? IMO that would be absurd.
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Points: 3497 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2007 at 17:06
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by Tuzvihar Tuzvihar wrote:

Someone has added Gebnesis A Trick of the Tail SACD/DVD reedition. I think there shouldn't be more than one entries for the same album. All the information should be added to the original entry instead.
 
I agree. I could've done the same with the new The doors' remixes 2007. And many other bands could receive the same treatment. And then we would have three or four different versions of the same album thus making the rating of the original one uncertain.
 
Absolutely right both Tuzvihar and The T!
Thanks!
 
The policy is to add any additional information on different re-releases / remasters to the already existing entries. Anyone who has such an information may put it in the Errors & Omissions section and it'll be added.
 
The redundant entry should be deleted. I've PM-ed an Admin about this.
 
Eugene
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2007 at 14:50
Originally posted by Tuzvihar Tuzvihar wrote:

Someone has added Gebnesis A Trick of the Tail SACD/DVD reedition. I think there shouldn't be more than one entries for the same album. All the information should be added to the original entry instead.
 
I agree. I could've done the same with the new The doors' remixes 2007. And many other bands could receive the same treatment. And then we would have three or four different versions of the same album thus making the rating of the original one uncertain.
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Points: 13536 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2007 at 14:39
Someone has added Gebnesis A Trick of the Tail SACD/DVD reedition. I think there shouldn't be more than one entries for the same album. All the information should be added to the original entry instead.
"Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent."

Charles Bukowski
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