Prog and Politics

Having listened to the track in its entirety, I think IQ are presenting the dramatic swing in international opinions about America post 9/11. There was a tremendous outpouring of sympathy and support that transcended national and ideological boundaries - remember the headline 'Aujourd'hui nous sommes tous Americains'?  As the US military/industrial complex flexed its muscles and the nature of the US response became clear, this became replaced by a widespread (though not universal) unease, which persists to this day. I think IQs lyric captures this neatly.

The implication that this is anti American probably stems from the current president's reduction of complex international issues to a Manichean 'You're either for us, or against us'. It is possible, as many including IQ have done, to be critical of the present administration and its policies while still having a profound respect for America and the American culture and people. After all, if Rock and Roll hadn't been invented, this forum would not exist.

 

This is really tangent, but appropriate to this thread.

I recently got IQ's Dark Matter, their 2004 release. In the second section of "Harvest of Souls", there is some Anti-American political commentary. For those who have the record, what do you think of this? Here's the segment:

The sky lights up above America
The world is lost but loves America
When the eyes of children see the ones left standing
Then the rest begin to finally understand
The hand of god defends America
And who would not defend America?
We've got right on our side, we're in the pole position
So praise the Lord and raise the ammunition high
Raise it high

Hide where you can
We will shoot you where you stand


Personally, as an American I find this section a little agitating, but I believe that the band has the right to voice its opinion. Would anybody argue that the whole song has a running theme of Anti-Americanism? Haven't listened enough to it yet to say myself if this is true or not.

I know there's a similar discussion about this in the featured CD section but I wanted to have a conversation focused more on this part of the album instead of the entire album.

i'm a pretty left wing guy. i'm a member of what brits might know as the S.W.P.. in Canada it's called the I.S.

Joren wrote:

There is no such thing as the best musical piece

Prove it!!!

Iván

Addressing points 1,2,3,7:

These are things normally associated with our labour party(socialist) in the Uk and socialist governments throughout Europe!.

So are associated with the Social Christian Party of my country and all around theworld.

Addressing 4,5,8,10

Irrelevant-Pol Pot and Stalin were maniacs and would have done the same thing regardless of their political persuasion.Cuba's human rights record is bad-so is USA's.
10-how many dont-the vast majority imo.

I'm only proving youthat until tooday there's no Communist/Socialist perfect state, not even close to perfection.

9.Are all the citizens of these countries treated fairly and equitably? No.

No, but in the Socialist Paradises the treatment is even worst, the problem is that Amnesty International and the Civil Roghts Associations are left oriented and are very bland with the Socialist/Communist countries.

6.South American politics are not my forte and it seems to me that political upheaval is the norm there.Are you suggesting that Velazo is the same as Tony Blair or Bill Clinton?

Never, Velazco send our country 50 years to the past, he banned the englishteaching in the schools, prohibited Rock & Roll, went against Religion freedom, destroyed our agriculture, Industry, Fishing Industry and media, but the way he was a socialist.

You are using only the worst examples to prove your point-so yes,your argument is very subjective.

Why, because ypou don't like them?

Iván

Music CAN be rated objectively, and about what was said:

For me the perfect piece is The Musical Box, if I had to stand before a judge I would honestly swear it's the perfect musical piece, probably Sweetnighter will also swear it's Close to the Edge and maybe the Judge will believe Strangers in the Night or any Frank Siinatra song is the perfect piece of music. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY SUBJECTIVE.

They think that would be the music part that they LIKE MOST. However, this is different from being the best musical piece!

gdub411 wrote: Why do you guys bother? Nobody is going to "enlighten" anyone with their point of views, no matter now articulately you express them. After reading this thread all I have to say is Blah,blah,blah!

Sigh... yeah, you're right.

That good ol' American logic prevails once again!

Please, where in the hell is that perfect Utopia? When will it come? More than 200 years have passed since Marx and Engels wrote their books and still there is not a perfect socialist nation.So what? Name a perfect nation of any description!

Ok Reed, not one of us has said that democracy is perfect, we know it has evident flaws, but it works in most rich countries. In poor countries doesn't work so well, but we lived sovcialist governments and believe me, they are worst.

You learn this kind of things with experience, not with theory, I've been there and I can assure you the country went to hell with Velazco

I LOVE THIS LINE!!! (Although the communist manifesto was written 1847, putting it more in the 150 year range) Try and think for yourself lad.The "line" as you call it is irrelevant.You might as well say "people have been making music for thousands of years-so where is that perfect piece" Utter twaddle!!

Please Reed I always respect your opinions even if I don't agree, and I know you're too intelligent to really believe this crap, you can't compare a form of art where all the results and opinions are purely subjective with a political system that can be perfectly evaluated with economic and statistic weapons.

For me the perfect piece is The Musical Box, if I had to stand before a judge I would honestly swear it's the perfect musical piece, probably Sweetnighter will also swear it's Close to the Edge and maybe the Judge will believe Strangers in the Night or any Frank Siinatra song is the perfect piece of music. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY SUBJECTIVE.

If we talk about political systems we can measure:

1. Improvement in economy
2. Improvement in health services
3. Improvement in Human Rights
4. How many political prissoners has Cuba
5. How many people killed Pol Pot or Stalin
6. How Velazco left Peruvian Economy
7. How many countries have abandoned communism/socialism
8. How many rafters reach the shores of USA every year from the socialist paradise
9. How many countries believe in democracy and free market
10. How many communist/socialist leaders become dictators

So don't compare two issues that are totally different.

Iván

Goodnight Ian.You are as right and as wrong as I am.

My philosophy (for today, at least):

If you can't be right-be wrong at the top of your voice!

Sweetnighter wrote: Reed Lover wrote: Sweetnighter wrote: . How can you judge that based on my saying, of all miniscule things, that I thought Ged wrote all the Rush music instead of Alex. Whoop-de-f**ken-do! That's not a testament of my character! Have you ever been wrong before? Frequently - so what? I have had two discussions with you: 1. About Rush 2.About Politics. You have made wild assumptions in both.You spend pages and pages discussing a Libertarian Philosophy and taxation but never once anticipated that the necessity to raise revenue somehow would raise its head.Then it dawns on you-Oh dear I hadnt thought that bit through.If this had been at the back of your mind you would have already mentioned it or hinted at it.You are just winging this and wasting my time. Your argument is an ill-thought out dog's dinner of immature fancy and other people's garbled quasi-philosphical ramblings.   1) Saying that geddy lee wrote the music instead of alex is not a "wild assumption," it was a mistake. Am I not allowed mistakes? After all, the albums all say Music by Lee and Lifeson, Lyrics by Peart. I've read one interview that was done with Lee and one with Peart online before. So, naturally, from what I had read, I was under the wrong impression. Oops! I'm a horrible person. 2) I've always been aware of this problem in libertarian theory. Although I consider myself a libertarian, that doesn't mean that I subscribe to everything the libertarian party does. Do most Democrats agree with every stance the party takes? Do Republicans? Assuredly some do, but not all. I use my mind when reading about politics. Yes, I agree with most stances the libertarian party takes, but not all. Plus, I outlined what I thought would be a good policy regarding taxes. Maybe somebody else will voice an opinion, but you want to paint me off as irrational and walk away satisfied with that. Have I really been that irrational?

You dont get it do you?

I've read one interview that was done with Lee and one with Peart online before. So, naturally, from what I had read, I was under the wrong impression. Oops! I'm a horrible person.

This is exactly your problem in general, in my opinion.Not enough information to form an opinion.......