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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is it legal to do a cover without permiss
    Posted: April 13 2007 at 18:57
Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:



How does this affect the UK's own Cliff Richard, who recorded a cover version of 'The Lord's Prayer' a couple of years ago? Would he have to obtain permission from the one and living God, or being a Christian himself, is consent implicit?
 
Well, it's hard because the limit for an artistic material to be public domain is 120 years after the death of the author.
 
Independently that Jesus resurrected, his official dead was in 33 AD, so the official date in which the Lord's Prayer becomes public domain is 158 AD Wink
 
BTW: I don't believe that Israel or Rome had signed WIPO or Berne Conventions in 32 or 31 AD,. To be honest I doubt Jesius copyrighted the prayer because in those days there was no copyright. LOL
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 13 2007 at 18:59
            
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Points: 613 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2007 at 16:14
I'm sorry, but that's the sort of law which can f*ck right off. I'm sure no artists mind their songs being covered by pub bands, and why is that a problem to anyone? It's just another example of money-greedy record companies trying to rip people off.
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Points: 2808 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2007 at 09:06
I misread the title of this thread and thought it said "cover without a penis"

But it didn't, so no alarms.
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Points: 14693 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2007 at 08:59
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Atkingani Atkingani wrote:

Vatican is out.... this means the padres can record Black Sabbath and give nothing to Ozzy & Co. Evil%20Smile

 

Vatican is not part of the UN (To avoid political participation), but it's a nation and have signed the WIPO (World Intellectual Property Organization), you can find them in the above list as Holy See.

 

Even more, The Holy See signed the WIPO in 1975, so was one of the first countries toi do it.

 

So, no you can't copy Black Sabbath neither Hells Bells by AC/DC Wink

 

Iván


How does this affect the UK's own Cliff Richard, who recorded a cover version of 'The Lord's Prayer' a couple of years ago? Would he have to obtain permission from the one and living God, or being a Christian himself, is consent implicit?

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Points: 90 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2007 at 10:51
Having looked into this in some detail, I can give you the UK situation, and probably the US one too, in outline at least.  With the caveat that I am not a lawyer and if you are unsure you should seek proper independent advice.
 
Live music.  As someone stated above, live music venues pay money to be licenced.  In the UK this is administered by the PRS. So you can play those cover versions OK.
 
Recorded music.  This is administered in the UK by the MCPS.  If you record it, you need to get it cleared.  There is no exception to this.  If you post a cover on myspace and it's not cleared, it's illegal.  Even if you don't sell anything.
 
If a cover song is going to appear on a CD you need to obtain a "mechanical licence" which is my reading of the MCPS info means that you need to pay 8.5% of the unit price pro-rata in time by the total length of the CD. (I.e. if you have a 6 minute track which is the only cover on a 60 minute disk, then you need to pay 8.5% of 10% of the cover price to the MCPS.)
 
if it is web-based you need to obtain a digital licence.  In the UK if this is likely to mean less than 45,000 streams it will cost you ... wait for it... £100 for a "Limited Online Exploitation Licence "
 
see all the details here: http://www.mcps-prs-alliance.co.uk
 
In the US things are a little easier.  the Harry Fox agency (http://www.harryfox.com/index.jsp) handle things painlessly on behalf of most publishers and you can even pay by credit card online.
 
Other countries have similar schemes.  You will have to research it for yourself.
 
But basically.  If you are going to present a version of someone's music in any form, CD, MP3, stream, wax cylinder, or crystalline lattice memory player... THAT SOMEONE IS DUE A CUT, AND NEEDS TO GET PAID.
 
Hope this is helpful
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Points: 12288 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2007 at 22:49
Originally posted by andu andu wrote:

Originally posted by Atkingani Atkingani wrote:

Other "sees" existed in the past like some muslim sultanates in the Middle East, North Africa and Asia Major, that were independent then; also some buddhist holy cities. I think that some of them have until now some autonomous status but nothing compared with The Vatican - a real nation.


I see you have knowledge on international affairs... I knew I was right about you being a state president (or a Prime Minister, maybe?) !!! Tongue

Stop hiding, reveal yourself! Wink
 
Smile
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Points: 3089 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2007 at 13:38
Originally posted by Atkingani Atkingani wrote:

Other "sees" existed in the past like some muslim sultanates in the Middle East, North Africa and Asia Major, that were independent then; also some buddhist holy cities. I think that some of them have until now some autonomous status but nothing compared with The Vatican - a real nation.


I see you have knowledge on international affairs... I knew I was right about you being a state president (or a Prime Minister, maybe?) !!! Tongue

Stop hiding, reveal yourself! Wink
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Points: 4309 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2007 at 13:30
I remember on the 15th birthday of a female friend we had to pay some extra monay directed to the copyright of the songs we were covering just to prevent future problems. It wasn't more than $50 (17 dollars) and we played like 7 songs. But I don't know what's the situation with myspace.com, I suppose they don't control anything! LOL
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Points: 12288 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2007 at 15:56
Originally posted by andu andu wrote:

The Holy Mountain of Athos (whatever it's actual name is) is also a state, but I don't know how it's special status is defined in the international community. They have a capital "city" and a government, the "Protaton", which consist of the council of protos (the leaders of the monasteries). They have their own legislation only on the matters important to them, for the rest they follow Greece's policy (like in external and internal affairs). They have their own economy laws, for example they don't apply some taxes, so if you buy a candle, an icon, an art album, a CD or something to eat, it will be around 30% cheaper than in inland Greece. They have foreigner rules: one has to get a residence permit in order to be allowed to enter; there is a bureau in the town where you take the boat to sail to the Mountain's ports (there is no terrestrial connection) which serves as a kind of consulate; one needs to take the short permit there, or show an invitation from one of the monasteries to get the extended permit.

I've been there, it's special. Smile
 
Other "sees" existed in the past like some muslim sultanates in the Middle East, North Africa and Asia Major, that were independent then; also some buddhist holy cities. I think that some of them have until now some autonomous status but nothing compared with The Vatican - a real nation.
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Points: 3089 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2007 at 14:27
The Holy Mountain of Athos (whatever it's actual name is) is also a state, but I don't know how it's special status is defined in the international community. They have a capital "city" and a government, the "Protaton", which consist of the council of protos (the leaders of the monasteries). They have their own legislation only on the matters important to them, for the rest they follow Greece's policy (like in external and internal affairs). They have their own economy laws, for example they don't apply some taxes, so if you buy a candle, an icon, an art album, a CD or something to eat, it will be around 30% cheaper than in inland Greece. They have foreigner rules: one has to get a residence permit in order to be allowed to enter; there is a bureau in the town where you take the boat to sail to the Mountain's ports (there is no terrestrial connection) which serves as a kind of consulate; one needs to take the short permit there, or show an invitation from one of the monasteries to get the extended permit.

I've been there, it's special. Smile
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2007 at 13:05
Originally posted by Atkingani Atkingani wrote:

 
Madre de Diós, Iván! I searched City of Vatican, The Vatican... never was able to figure that the only Holy See in the World is from our beloved RC Church! Embarrassed
 
 
 
Yep, it's the only Holy See with status of nation.
 
I also thought Vatican was the official name, but this is copied from the WIPO page, so seems the real name accepted by other nations is Holy See.
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 08 2007 at 13:30
            
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Points: 12288 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2007 at 12:45
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Atkingani Atkingani wrote:

Vatican is out.... this means the padres can record Black Sabbath and give nothing to Ozzy & Co. Evil%20Smile
 
Vatican is not part of the UN (To avoid political participation), but it's a nation and have signed the WIPO (World Intellectual Property Organization), you can find them in the above list as Holy See.
 
Even more, The Holy See signed the WIPO in 1975, so was one of the first countries toi do it.
 
So, no you can't copy Black Sabbath neither Hells Bells by AC/DC Wink
 
Iván
 
Madre de Diós, Iván! I searched City of Vatican, The Vatican... never was able to figure that the only Holy See in the World is from our beloved RC Church! Embarrassed
 
 
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2007 at 12:42
Originally posted by Atkingani Atkingani wrote:

Vatican is out.... this means the padres can record Black Sabbath and give nothing to Ozzy & Co. Evil%20Smile
 
Vatican is not part of the UN (To avoid political participation), but it's a nation and have signed the WIPO (World Intellectual Property Organization), you can find them in the above list as Holy See.
 
Even more, The Holy See signed the WIPO in 1975, so was one of the first countries toi do it.
 
So, no you can't copy Black Sabbath neither Hells Bells by AC/DC Wink
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 08 2007 at 12:43
            
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Points: 12288 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2007 at 12:38
Vatican is out.... this means the padres can record Black Sabbath and give nothing to Ozzy & Co. Evil%20Smile
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2007 at 12:33
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

Can't be many more than 184 countries in the world, can there?
 
Yes you're right Bob, there are 192 nations recognized by the UN (This makes 193 because the Vatican has chosen not to be a member of the UN and one that used to be a country but no longer is Taiwan) but not sure how many more not recogtnized there are, because every day a small country appears somewhere splitting from an already small country.
 
Most of the countries that have not signed the treaty are those who are in terrible civil wars and have other issues to worry about.
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 08 2007 at 12:38
            
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Points: 15585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2007 at 11:07
Can't be many more than 184 countries in the world, can there?

Edited by Easy Livin - April 08 2007 at 11:08
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Points: 5109 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2007 at 05:26
Originally posted by Chus Chus wrote:

Originally posted by bhikkhu bhikkhu wrote:

In an establishment that offers live music, they pay a fee to AASCAP and BMI. That is supposed to cover the copyright problem. If you put it on the net, it could be considered a broadcast, and therefore an infringement. I wouldn't chance it.

 

  Yes, I got more or less the same answer from Ivan. Thanks bhikkhuSmile.


Wow, and I'm not even an attorney. I guess we do spend too much time together.

Actually, I know this from having worked in several places with live music.

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Points: 1991 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2007 at 02:34
Originally posted by The Whistler The Whistler wrote:

Crap. Guess that'll go into my email to Ian too.
 
Yes, you can ask him permission while giving him a brown moose ice creamWink.
 
 And Thanks again Ivan, I'm sure this post made public will answer people here with the same question.
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Points: 7113 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2007 at 01:36
Crap. Guess that'll go into my email to Ian too.
"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2007 at 01:34
As I toild you omn a PM Chus, if you live in one of the 163 countries that signed the Berne Convention, it's illegal because the article  6 says:
 
Quote

(1) Independently of the author's economic rights, and even after the transfer of the said rights, the author shall have the right to claim authorship of the work and to object to any distortion, mutilation or other modification of, or other derogatory action in relation to, the said work, which would be prejudicial to his honor or reputation.

 
The text doesn't mention if there must be profit or not.
 
Now I have to give you worst news, the list of coutries who signed the WIPO Convention (Which accepts the Berne Convention) is bigger, 184 nations:
 
 
Quote
Afghanistan WIPO Convention In Force December 13, 2005 Details
Albania WIPO Convention In Force June 30, 1992 Details
Algeria WIPO Convention In Force April 16, 1975 Details
Andorra WIPO Convention In Force October 28, 1994 Details
Angola WIPO Convention In Force April 15, 1985 Details
Antigua and Barbuda WIPO Convention In Force March 17, 2000 Details
Argentina WIPO Convention In Force October 8, 1980 Details
Armenia WIPO Convention In Force April 22, 1993 Details
Australia WIPO Convention In Force August 10, 1972 Details
Austria WIPO Convention In Force August 11, 1973 Details
Azerbaijan WIPO Convention In Force December 25, 1995 Details
Bahamas WIPO Convention In Force January 4, 1977 Details
Bahrain WIPO Convention In Force June 22, 1995 Details
Bangladesh WIPO Convention In Force May 11, 1985 Details
Barbados WIPO Convention In Force October 5, 1979 Details
Belarus WIPO Convention In Force April 26, 1970 Details
Belgium WIPO Convention In Force January 31, 1975 Details
Belize WIPO Convention In Force June 17, 2000 Details
Benin WIPO Convention In Force March 9, 1975 Details
Bhutan WIPO Convention In Force March 16, 1994 Details
Bolivia WIPO Convention In Force July 6, 1993 Details
Bosnia and Herzegovina WIPO Convention In Force March 1, 1992 Details
Botswana WIPO Convention In Force April 15, 1998 Details
Brazil WIPO Convention In Force March 20, 1975 Details
Brunei Darussalam WIPO Convention In Force April 21, 1994 Details
Bulgaria WIPO Convention In Force May 19, 1970 Details
Burkina Faso WIPO Convention In Force August 23, 1975 Details
Burundi WIPO Convention In Force March 30, 1977 Details
Cambodia WIPO Convention In Force July 25, 1995 Details
Cameroon WIPO Convention In Force November 3, 1973 Details
Canada WIPO Convention In Force June 26, 1970 Details
Cape Verde WIPO Convention In Force July 7, 1997 Details
Central African Republic WIPO Convention In Force August 23, 1978 Details
Chad WIPO Convention In Force September 26, 1970 Details
Chile WIPO Convention In Force June 25, 1975 Details
China WIPO Convention In Force June 3, 1980 Details
Colombia WIPO Convention In Force May 4, 1980 Details
Comoros WIPO Convention In Force April 3, 2005 Details
Congo WIPO Convention In Force December 2, 1975 Details
Costa Rica WIPO Convention In Force June 10, 1981 Details
Côte d'Ivoire WIPO Convention In Force May 1, 1974 Details
Croatia WIPO Convention In Force October 8, 1991 Details
Cuba WIPO Convention In Force March 27, 1975 Details
Cyprus WIPO Convention In Force October 26, 1984 Details
Czech Republic WIPO Convention In Force January 1, 1993 Details
Democratic People's Republic of Korea WIPO Convention In Force August 17, 1974 Details
Democratic Republic of the Congo WIPO Convention In Force January 28, 1975 Details
Denmark WIPO Convention In Force April 26, 1970 Details
Djibouti WIPO Convention In Force May 13, 2002 Details
Dominica WIPO Convention In Force September 26, 1998 Details
Dominican Republic WIPO Convention In Force June 27, 2000 Details
Ecuador WIPO Convention In Force May 22, 1988 Details
Egypt WIPO Convention In Force April 21, 1975 Details
El Salvador WIPO Convention In Force September 18, 1979 Details
Equatorial Guinea WIPO Convention In Force June 26, 1997 Details
Eritrea WIPO Convention In Force February 20, 1997 Details
Estonia WIPO Convention In Force February 5, 1994 Details
Ethiopia WIPO Convention In Force February 19, 1998 Details
Fiji WIPO Convention In Force March 11, 1972 Details
Finland WIPO Convention In Force September 8, 1970 Details
France WIPO Convention In Force October 18, 1974 Details
Gabon WIPO Convention In Force June 6, 1975 Details
Gambia WIPO Convention In Force December 10, 1980 Details
Georgia WIPO Convention In Force December 25, 1991 Details
Germany WIPO Convention In Force September 19, 1970 Details
Ghana WIPO Convention In Force June 12, 1976 Details
Greece WIPO Convention In Force March 4, 1976 Details
Grenada WIPO Convention In Force September 22, 1998 Details
Guatemala WIPO Convention In Force April 30, 1983 Details
Guinea WIPO Convention In Force November 13, 1980 Details
Guinea-Bissau WIPO Convention In Force June 28, 1988 Details
Guyana WIPO Convention In Force October 25, 1994 Details
Haiti WIPO Convention In Force November 2, 1983 Details
Holy See WIPO Convention In Force April 20, 1975 Details
Honduras WIPO Convention In Force November 15, 1983 Details
Hungary WIPO Convention In Force April 26, 1970 Details
Iceland WIPO Convention In Force September 13, 1986 Details
India WIPO Convention In Force May 1, 1975 Details
Indonesia WIPO Convention In Force December 18, 1979 Details
Iran (Islamic Republic of) WIPO Convention In Force March 14, 2002 Details
Iraq WIPO Convention In Force January 21, 1976 Details
Ireland WIPO Convention In Force April 26, 1970 Details
Israel WIPO Convention In Force April 26, 1970 Details
Italy WIPO Convention In Force April 20, 1977 Details
Jamaica WIPO Convention In Force December 25, 1978 Details
Japan WIPO Convention In Force April 20, 1975 Details
Jordan WIPO Convention In Force July 12, 1972 Details
Kazakhstan WIPO Convention In Force December 25, 1991 Details
Kenya WIPO Convention In Force October 5, 1971 Details
Kuwait WIPO Convention In Force July 14, 1998 Details
Kyrgyzstan WIPO Convention In Force December 25, 1991 Details
Lao People's Democratic Republic WIPO Convention In Force January 17, 1995 Details
Latvia WIPO Convention In Force January 21, 1993 Details
Lebanon WIPO Convention In Force December 30, 1986 Details
Lesotho WIPO Convention In Force November 18, 1986 Details
Liberia WIPO Convention In Force March 8, 1989 Details
Libyan Arab Jamahiriya WIPO Convention In Force September 28, 1976 Details
Liechtenstein WIPO Convention In Force May 21, 1972 Details
Lithuania WIPO Convention In Force April 30, 1992 Details
Luxembourg WIPO Convention In Force March 19, 1975 Details
Madagascar WIPO Convention In Force December 22, 1989 Details
Malawi WIPO Convention In Force June 11, 1970 Details
Malaysia WIPO Convention In Force January 1, 1989 Details
Maldives WIPO Convention In Force May 12, 2004 Details
Mali WIPO Convention In Force August 14, 1982 Details
Malta WIPO Convention In Force December 7, 1977 Details
Mauritania WIPO Convention In Force September 17, 1976 Details
Mauritius WIPO Convention In Force September 21, 1976 Details
Mexico WIPO Convention In Force June 14, 1975 Details
Moldova WIPO Convention In Force December 25, 1991 Details
Monaco WIPO Convention In Force March 3, 1975 Details
Mongolia WIPO Convention In Force February 28, 1979 Details
Montenegro WIPO Convention In Force June 3, 2006 Details
Morocco WIPO Convention In Force July 27, 1971 Details
Mozambique WIPO Convention In Force December 23, 1996 Details
Myanmar WIPO Convention In Force May 15, 2001 Details
Namibia WIPO Convention In Force December 23, 1991 Details
Nepal WIPO Convention In Force February 4, 1997 Details
Netherlands WIPO Convention In Force January 9, 1975 Details
New Zealand WIPO Convention In Force June 20, 1984 Details
Nicaragua WIPO Convention In Force May 5, 1985 Details
Niger WIPO Convention In Force May 18, 1975 Details
Nigeria WIPO Convention In Force April 9, 1995 Details
Norway WIPO Convention In Force June 8, 1974 Details
Oman WIPO Convention In Force February 19, 1997 Details
Pakistan WIPO Convention In Force January 6, 1977 Details
Panama WIPO Convention In Force September 17, 1983 Details
Papua New Guinea WIPO Convention In Force July 10, 1997 Details
Paraguay WIPO Convention In Force June 20, 1987 Details
Peru WIPO Convention In Force September 4, 1980 Details
Philippines WIPO Convention In Force July 14, 1980 Details
Poland WIPO Convention In Force March 23, 1975 Details
Portugal WIPO Convention In Force April 27, 1975 Details
Qatar WIPO Convention In Force September 3, 1976 Details
Republic of Korea WIPO Convention In Force March 1, 1979 Details
Romania WIPO Convention In Force April 26, 1970 Details
Russian Federation WIPO Convention In Force April 26, 1970 Details
Rwanda WIPO Convention In Force February 3, 1984 Details
Saint Kitts and Nevis WIPO Convention In Force November 16, 1995 Details
Saint Lucia WIPO Convention In Force August 21, 1993 Details
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines WIPO Convention In Force August 29, 1995 Details
Samoa WIPO Convention In Force October 11, 1997 Details
San Marino WIPO Convention In Force June 26, 1991 Details
Sao Tome and Principe WIPO Convention In Force May 12, 1998 Details
Saudi Arabia WIPO Convention In Force May 22, 1982 Details
Senegal WIPO Convention In Force April 26, 1970 Details
Serbia WIPO Convention In Force April 27, 1992 Details
Seychelles WIPO Convention In Force March 16, 2000 Details
Sierra Leone WIPO Convention In Force May 18, 1986 Details
Singapore WIPO Convention In Force December 10, 1990 Details
Slovakia WIPO Convention In Force January 1, 1993 Details
Slovenia WIPO Convention In Force June 25, 1991 Details
Somalia WIPO Convention In Force November 18, 1982 Details
South Africa WIPO Convention In Force March 23, 1975 Details
Spain WIPO Convention In Force April 26, 1970 Details
Sri Lanka WIPO Convention In Force September 20, 1978 Details
Sudan WIPO Convention In Force February 15, 1974 Details
Suriname WIPO Convention In Force November 25, 1975 Details
Swaziland WIPO Convention In Force August 18, 1988 Details
Sweden WIPO Convention In Force April 26, 1970 Details
Switzerland WIPO Convention In Force April 26, 1970 Details
Syrian Arab Republic WIPO Convention In Force November 18, 2004 Details
Tajikistan WIPO Convention In Force December 25, 1991 Details
Thailand WIPO Convention In Force December 25, 1989 Details
The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia WIPO Convention In Force September 8, 1991 Details
Togo WIPO Convention In Force April 28, 1975 Details
Tonga WIPO Convention In Force June 14, 2001 Details
Trinidad and Tobago WIPO Convention In Force August 16, 1988 Details
Tunisia WIPO Convention In Force November 28, 1975 Details
Turkey WIPO Convention In Force May 12, 1976 Details
Turkmenistan WIPO Convention In Force December 25, 1991 Details
Uganda WIPO Convention In Force October 18, 1973 Details
Ukraine WIPO Convention In Force April 26, 1970 Details
United Arab Emirates WIPO Convention In Force September 24, 1974 Details
United Kingdom WIPO Convention In Force April 26, 1970 Details
United Republic of Tanzania WIPO Convention In Force December 30, 1983 Details
United States of America WIPO Convention In Force August 25, 1970 Details
Uruguay WIPO Convention In Force December 21, 1979 Details
Uzbekistan WIPO Convention In Force December 25, 1991 Details
Venezuela WIPO Convention In Force November 23, 1984 Details
Viet Nam WIPO Convention In Force July 2, 1976 Details
Yemen WIPO Convention In Force March 29, 1979 Details
Zambia WIPO Convention In Force May 14, 1977 Details
Zimbabwe WIPO Convention In Force December 29, 1981 Details
 
So unless you live in a country not mentioned there (Not your case being from Venezuela) and you're modifying the work of a musician from another country not mentioned there you're fried, so not being your case, better ask permission.
 
Iván
 
 


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 08 2007 at 12:35
            
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