Your thoughts on albums being remastered |
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Hyperborea
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 06 2007 Status: Offline Points: 234 |
Topic: Your thoughts on albums being remastered Posted: March 29 2007 at 20:59 |
Re-masters are a con.......digitally re-mastered? so what. A few tracks thrown in that weren't good enough first time around.or some dodgy demo/live track. More money for the appalling record companies, and more than enough buffoons ready to buy them.
p.s original record releases have better quality than cd's. Edited by Hyperborea - March 29 2007 at 21:00 |
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A B Negative
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 02 2006 Location: Methil Republic Status: Offline Points: 1594 |
Posted: March 28 2007 at 10:14 |
When I started to listen to prog again (about 5 years ago) my local music shop had some old prog CDs that were pretty cheap. I bought most of the VDGG albums, a couple of Robert Wyatt albums and In the Land of Grey and Pink by Caravan.
I loved the music but the sound quality was on a par with cassettes. When the albums were remastered and re-released I had no qualms about buying them again.
The reissues are louder, more detailed and have less noise.
Bonus tracks range from very good (Caravan reissues) to unremarkable (VDGG) to non-existant (Wyatt).
And I gave my old CDs to friends, introducing them to the ways of prog...
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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thellama73
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: March 11 2007 at 22:39 |
I love remasters. They usually sound way better than the original cd
release, which most of the time came out in the mid 80's when they
didn't really know how to made good cds. But if I'm not in the mood to
pay a lot of money for aa remaster, I can usually find the original
kicking around for a really low price. Everybody wins.
What I don't like is when artists remix as well as remaster, as Megadeth has done with their releases. That's the equivelant of Lucas sticking a CG Jabba the Hut into Star Wars IV. :P |
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con safo
Prog Reviewer Joined: March 17 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1230 |
Posted: March 10 2007 at 12:49 |
Why would you have a problem with them? Sure there are some shoddy remasters but a good majority are an improvement. Like was said, if you're one of those people who believe original LP's sound best then just keep listening to them! Remasters give new clarity and depth to classic recordings. For the most part.
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perennial_quest
Forum Newbie Joined: March 08 2007 Location: Quebec Status: Offline Points: 14 |
Posted: March 10 2007 at 03:34 |
Personally, I love remasters, especially when an album hasn't been available for a while (all those that get sold on eBay for over $40). Sound quality is generally good, but occasionally, some companies tend to over compress the sound to make it seem very loud to the point of distortion. This is also the case for new albums since the 00s and especially in metal. Bonus tracks are welcome even if they don't add much to the album, but it shouldn't be the reason to upgrade your old copy. Also, you generally can't go wrong with Japanese Mini-LPs. The only problem is that they are much sought after and their price can be a little high, but they are worth the price. Be aware that there are bootlegs out there.
I've encountered great remasters, like the Gentle Giant re-issues from DRT. Fans of the band know that prior to 2005, all albums from 1973-1980 were quite hard to find (at least in N.America they were). The die-cut Power & the Glory and the embossed cover of The Missing Piece were a nice touch. Jethro Tull's Warchild is a great example of great bonus tracks. Not only there are plenty of additions but these extra songs are as good as the album itself. While remasters are generally great imo, there are some really crappy ones. The initial pressing of Gentle Giant's Interview from DRT was mastered in mono. It was the CD manufacturer's fault and thankfully my disc was replaced with a correct copy and signed by Derek Shulman himself. I also bought Sadus' Swallowed in Black (great metal band!) from Metal Mind Productions and it had a really big mistake: the music on the disc was from their next album, Vision of misery. I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive in the mail. The last crappy one I've bought was Comus' First Utterance released by Breathless. Please avoid at all cost!!!! I've wrote about this in the Comus thread. For the details click here I never heard other releases by Breathless, I assume they're not that bad. Anyone can comment on that? Geez, that was a lot of typing... To Mystic Fred: Is it Mobile Fidelity? |
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mystic fred
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 13 2006 Location: Londinium Status: Offline Points: 4252 |
Posted: March 08 2007 at 02:17 |
An American audiophile record company (will edit the name in when i get home) has reissued "Aqualung" remastered on vinyl, they borrowed the original tapes from Ian Anderson. i ordered a copy and when i get it will report on my findings, a British hifi mag reported it as the best quality recording so far so we'll see....
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BroSpence
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 05 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2614 |
Posted: March 07 2007 at 21:45 |
Its annoying and iffy. Sometimes they remaster things like crap and a lot of good stuff isn't in the mix anymore. Other times they don't do a bad job and everything is ok. Adding two bonus tracks and jacking the price up to 25 bucks is not good though. Lame liner notes are also not appreciated.
Check out the Rhino reissues of the Elvis Costello albums. They are so well done. Great full sound, plenty of pages on what Elvis had in mind for the album at the time (written of course by Costello himself), a 2nd cd of demos, live tracks, b-sides, etc. And for 13-18 dollars. Its a goooood deal. |
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member Content Addition Joined: April 10 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3928 |
Posted: March 07 2007 at 13:09 |
I agree, the Tull remasters were an example of how it should be done, imo. They sounded great (the older CD of This Was especially I found to be dreadful), and the extras were mostly essential to the album in question- fewer 'one play' jobs (in fact I rarely played most of them that much!) like those Yes demo versions. And what's more, the Tull ones cost around £5, save the doubles, near me in most any shop. Cost effective, but superbly done. I've been getting most of them lately- surprised at how much I like the late 80s and onwards albums.
However, I think 'Aqualung' NEEDS a overhaul desparately. The Thick As A Brick one sounds great to me, and was done around the same time, but the Aqualung 'remaster' sounds terrible- really flat, especially when compared to the later remasters. Also, the extras were largely superfluous- BBC sessions from 1968, which had not only been already released, but Aqualung came out in 1971!!
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andu
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 27 2006 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 3089 |
Posted: March 07 2007 at 12:58 |
Most of our local 70s music hasn't been reissued again, so it'll be a long wait for the remasters...
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Flip_Stone
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 11 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 388 |
Posted: March 07 2007 at 12:17 |
Probably the most important aspect is whether the "remastered" albums really sound remastered or not. For me, increased volume, clarity, and sonic/stereo separation is what counts. For comparison, the Jethro Tull remasters really sound enhanced and you can heard the details of the music much better. The music also sounds less dated (like it was recorded more recently). On the other hand, the Gentle Giant and Genesis "pseudo-remasters" only sound marginally better (more bass), and don't seem worth the extra expense if one already has the earlier versions on CD (although the lyrics are great to have).
As soundsweird points out above, an EQ (equalizer) in a person's stereo system can make most dated CD's sound remastered. That's probably the best improvement anyone can do. Then you don't have to rely on the CD manufacturer's to get the right sound.
Bonus tracks (especially studio) and enhanced album art are other usual benefits. It's great when there are pictures, album recording notes, and when lyrics are restored.
Again, I'd point to the Jethro Tull remasters as one of the best examples of how it should be done. It looks like a lot of attention and care went into producing those. A quality-oriented approach, even if probably expensive for the record companies.
It all boils down to knowing what "improvements" really exist on the remasters before buying, to avoid high expectations. That way you can avoid wasting money on the fake/hyped ones, and can only focus on the true enhanced ones...
Edited by Flip_Stone - March 07 2007 at 12:51 |
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Jeams Pfirp
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 03 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 163 |
Posted: March 02 2007 at 22:36 |
I don't mind remastering, but I usually shy away from the bonus tracks.
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yames
Forum Newbie Joined: March 02 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1 |
Posted: March 02 2007 at 22:10 |
Hey - the remaster of "Out of the Blue" is out and is on sale in stores. I haven't heard it yet but I'm going to be a sucker and buy it for the vouluminous pictures and the 3 extra bonus tracks. It's gotten good reviews from British prog magazines. It's my favorite ELO album. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, though. I really hope it's good.
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Yames
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 24 2005 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 8844 |
Posted: March 02 2007 at 21:54 |
One thing I hate about remasters is the so-called "penalty tracks" that stretch an album onto a second CD. For example, Frank Zappa's Uncle Meat easily fits onto one CD. However, they added so much extra material (most of it garbage) that the album had to be extended to two CD's. Leave those tracks on an outakes collection that can be purchased by someone who actually wants it.
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Bj-1
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 04 2005 Location: No(r)Way Status: Offline Points: 31336 |
Posted: March 02 2007 at 20:11 |
Remasters has it's up's and down's. I hate the Yes remasters. While the packaging is brilliant, those bonus tracks are really annoying. Like on the Drama remaster where 10 tracks are added as bonuses. I think they should have been released in a box set with Yes rarities rather than on the remasters.
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RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!
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Intruder
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 13 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2165 |
Posted: March 02 2007 at 20:01 |
I have mixed feelings about remasters and most of the pros/cons have been brought up here already. My contention is that if you own a previous edition and the same label is doing the remaster, the consumer should be able to exchange their old copies for a discount on the remaster.....that and a free Twix bar. |
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I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12813 |
Posted: February 27 2007 at 05:38 |
There are good and bad remastering. It appeared that taking the original masters prepared for vinyl and directly using them for CD, lead to some aural inbalance being introduced - CDs have a fuller aural range (cf. LPs >15 minutes per side), so top end frequencies appeared up front. Hence remasters that fixed that were a godsend. However, remasters taking you from x bits to x+ y bits seem more difficult to detect any real beneficial changes (e.g. comment often made about some Mahavishnu Orchestra (re)remasters).
Remastering of old 78rpm discs (often meaning more than clean-up of surface noise) , especially when the masters have long disappeared, can be really excellent. Check out Aussie recording engineer Robert Armstrong's series of recordings issued by the BBC Records in the late 80's - some of the Bix Beiderbeck remasters have gained a wonderful depth of clarity. Sony's Roots'n'Blues label, largely devoted to issuing 20's to 40's blues recordings (plus the odd Taj Mahal, Mike Bloomfield album) has used the Cambridge CEDAR aural clean -up and remastering system with some staggering results. However, I still wait to heard Blind Lemon Jefferson in scratch-free aural clarity. My favourite story of aural clean up and remastering, is what Nimbus records did on discovery of heap of mint live long forgotten opera recordings found stored at La Scala Milan. The Nimbus engineers realised the large format 78rpm discs were intended to be heard on a traditional 78rpm gramophone - so they built the best modern electronic 78rpm player known and recorded the sound coming from the horn onto digital tape. Apparently some of the 30's operatic divas sound perfect. Edited by Dick Heath - February 27 2007 at 05:39 |
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soundsweird
Prog Reviewer Joined: December 08 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 408 |
Posted: February 26 2007 at 23:53 |
My experience with remasters has led me to judge each on its own merits. I've bought some that sounded worse than the original, some that sounded better. Bonus tracks can be great or awful. One thing I can say with certainty: don't sell your original until you've listened to the remaster thoroughly. Many remasters are simply louder than the original, with the bass and high frequencies boosted. If you have a sound system which allows you to adjust the EQ (a must in my book), the original issue is probably fine. There are exceptions; the original "Lamb Lies Down" and "Ummagumma" CD's had very audible tape hiss in the quiet passages, and the remasters fixed that. I just got the Hillage remaster of "Fish Rising", and it sounds much better than the tinny, muddy-sounding original, and the bonus tracks are worth having, too.
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Mascodagama
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 5111 |
Posted: February 26 2007 at 15:58 |
I certainly wouldn't underestimate the cynicism of record companies getting fans to re-buy the same material for the umpteenth time. On the other hand, when new remasters come out it can actually mean the chance to pick up bargains if you're not bothered about having the shiny new version. As people upgrade their collections and retailers clear out 'obsolete' stock you can often find the old CDs for peanuts on E-Bay and from Amazon sellers.
I do sometimes re-buy when remasters come out, but mainly if I'm unhappy with the sound on the versions I've got or the remasters have additional material that actually seems interesting (pretty rare for me). I loved the King Crimson and Gentle Giant anniversary reissues for instance, but I'm not much interested in the new Yes remasters. To my ears the Joe Gastwirt nineties versions sound very good indeed and I'm sceptical of how much real improvement can be squeezed out by making yet another pass at those seventies master tapes. And I certainly don't want to own a copy of Relayer with stuff like a "studio run through" of GoD tacked onto it. I'll just listen to the version they actually finished and were happy with, thanks...
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Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21199 |
Posted: February 26 2007 at 15:46 |
Napster is really cool when it comes to remasters ... just a few days ago they released all the Steve Hillage albums. Ok, it's all in 192kbps WMA ... but the quality is good enough to check whether you like the changes they made to the sound.
Edited by MikeEnRegalia - February 26 2007 at 15:46 |
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member Content Addition Joined: April 10 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3928 |
Posted: February 26 2007 at 15:34 |
I would much prefer remasters. I read some grumbles about the VDGG remasters, and all the usual nonsense about how the previous CDs were 'nearer to the original vinyl/sound warmer'. I don't want it to sound like the vinyl, frankly, and if those people do, stick to the vinyls. It's as simple as that. IMHO, those VDGG CDs were in such a higher orbit to the older ones it was unbelievable, especially Pawn Hearts which opened it out much more. The old ones were flat sounding. In fact, most of Virgin's catalogue that was done way back I find very deficient in terms of packaging too- no lyrics and often the gatefold/back cover was cropped (Spectral Mornings and Nadir's Big Chance spring to mind) for the booklet (though most of them didn't have them save track details). Looked cheap and nasty.
Although the extras weren't really more than 'one play' affairs, the Rhino remasters were superb. They sound truly vibrant and fresh to me- haven't dated a jot. I wonder what the 5.1 Genesis releases will be like too- extras are promised, as well as a DVD of extra material for all discs, I believe.
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