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Equality 7-2521
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Topic: How bad is inflation in your country? Posted: March 02 2007 at 10:09 |
IVNORD wrote:
el böthy wrote:
Inflation is Argentina´s middle name |
any numbers? |
"Argentina is still a long way from a return of the hyperinflation of
the 1970s and 1980s. But many economists believe that prices of goods
and services not covered by price controls will rise by 13-15% this
year."
Some numbers from a recent article in the economist. Apparently, the
government has been manipulating the way it calculates the inflation
rate to make it appear smaller. The number the government reported was
1.1% for January
"Private economists estimate that the real figure was between 1.5% and 2%"
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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IVNORD
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Posted: March 01 2007 at 21:05 |
el böthy wrote:
Inflation is Argentina´s middle name |
any numbers?
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Atkingani
Special Collaborator
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Posted: March 01 2007 at 20:55 |
el böthy wrote:
Inflation is Argentina´s middle name |
I thought it was under control, Matias...
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Guigo
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el böthy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 27 2005
Location: Argentina
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Points: 6336
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Posted: March 01 2007 at 20:12 |
Inflation is Argentina´s middle name
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"You want me to play what, Robert?"
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IVNORD
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Posted: March 01 2007 at 11:02 |
Do you mean deflation? I don’t think it’s happenong in Europe. The rise or fall of the euro or any other currency is a temporary market fluctuation of paper money. Collectively all currencies lose their value
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Equality 7-2521
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Posted: March 01 2007 at 09:02 |
Aren't the prices recipricated in Europe though where the Euro has been on the rise?
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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IVNORD
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Posted: March 01 2007 at 08:38 |
Price manipulation is a fallacy of the same nature as the controlled inflation. If the Arab sheiks and Venezuelan president are so powerful, why haven’t they prevented the near-collapse of oil prices back in 1998 instead of risking Venezuela nearly going bankrupt?
It’s also fashionable to blame it on Katrina and greedy speculators. All these factors, including alleged manipulation can give it a temporary jump (like Katrina did) but it is hardly sustainable for more than a few days/ weeks. If it settles between $50 and 60 for a few years, it’s here to stay and the cause is more serious than OPec. By some accounts the dollar lost 40-45% of its value within the past 15 years. This would explain it better.
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Equality 7-2521
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Posted: February 28 2007 at 22:57 |
That has much more to do with OPEC's manipulation than anything iternally economical
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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IVNORD
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Posted: February 28 2007 at 18:54 |
The ongoing devaluation (I probably have to use the official term depreciation, but it’s devaluation nonetheless) is not a deliberate act. It’s rather a no-choice situation. We have to print the green paper to to cover our expenses or face a financial calamity. It surely hurts us. It’s a vicious cycle – the more we print, the more the dollar depreciates. The rise in oil prices from $10 in 1999 to $78 last year is a direct consequence of it.
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Equality 7-2521
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Posted: February 28 2007 at 00:08 |
I understand that devaluation occurs regularly, however a deliberate
and extreme devaluation of our dollar could only hurt the economy.
Surely you can't make a case that says it would do anything but that.
You lost me in the second paragraph there. I'm no economics expert (yet ) so I won't disagree or agree with something I don't completely understand.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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IVNORD
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Posted: February 27 2007 at 23:24 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
It's not that simple. Devauling our currency would be terrible for home economies, and given we export significantly less than we import it would hurt us on the internation scene. Not to mention, that leaving the US economy in the hands of foreign investors hoping that they ask for repayment on their loans, is not a good proposition. |
The devaluing of the currencies is going on for years (you don’t confuse it with the officially announced devaluations circa the mid-60’s, do you?). Ever since since the gold standard has been abandoned, the need to announce it disappeared. Otherwise it would be quite embarrassing to announce it every day. It’s just called differently – currency depreciation, floating exchange rate, controlled inflation, etc. Doesn’t hurt us on the international scene a bit since the dollar is still much more stable than the currencies of the developing countries, and the currencies of the industrialized countries are depreciating at the same pace if not faster.
As per the US economy in the hands of foreigners, it’s not as scary as it seems. First of all, the central banks support each other by buying each other’s debt, currency interventions and such, so no real threat of a sudden demand for payment. With regard to tangible assets, only non-strategic assets are allowed to be owned by non-US interests. Entire strategic industries are subsidized by the government – just how would the steel companies or American farmers survive if not for the subsidies. As an additional benefit, foreign ownership creates that bond between countries that renders a military conflict between them impractical – try to imagine an attack on Pearl Harbor today. And finally, as long as the assets are located on your territory, you could always repossess them in case of national emergency.
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JJLehto
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Joined: April 05 2006
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Posted: February 27 2007 at 19:48 |
Whoa, over my head. I really don't know exactly...
All I know for sure is, everything is damn expensive and is always getting worse
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
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Posted: February 27 2007 at 12:28 |
It's not that simple. Devauling our currency would be terrible for home
economies, and given we export significantly less than we import it
would hurt us on the internation scene. Not to mention, that leaving
the US economy in the hands of foreign investors hoping that they ask
for repayment on their loans, is not a good proposition.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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IVNORD
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Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
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Points: 1191
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Posted: February 27 2007 at 09:49 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
^ Took the words right out of my mouth? The burden we inherit by the outragious federal debt will be what the good part of our adult lives are spent figuring out.. The scary thing is the debt we are accumulating now is one unlike we've had in our history, as it is owed to foreigners and not to our own citizens. |
Again, why is it better to rip off your own population? Sell your debt to foreigners and devalue your currency, then repay it at a fraction of the original value. It was a laughable attempt to manipulate the interest rates when they discontinued the 30-year bond a few years ago. There’s no better business proposition than issuing the 30-year paper. Sure enough it was reinstated recently.
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IVNORD
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Points: 1191
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Posted: February 27 2007 at 09:41 |
The T wrote:
IVNORD wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The US's inflation is well under control; Really? with gasoline at 90 cents in 1999 and close to $3 just recently? Yes, but that's not only because of pure economic market inflation, but because the money-hungry b*****ds sons of bitches who own the Oil companies want to have more $ after they retire (like the former CEO of Exxon-Mobil who retired with more than a hundred million dollars...) Also because they push their political agenda (the same as W, our "bright" president) and becuase there's a war in the middle east that drives the cost of the oil barrel towards the sky... everything fits, war, oil prices go up, W's friends get richer, the war goes on... do the math....
That’s a naïve statement. A hundred million dollars is a drop in the bucket comparing to trillions of dollars oil markets are worth. The present rise in oil prices does not depend on actions of any company(s) let alone any individual(s). The commodity markets have risen due to the de facto devaluation of the dollar (inflation) there are much more pressing economic problems for the US. would you name a few? Economic problems? The trade deficit with China,
The trade deficit is not that bad. You get real goods in exchange for paper – can’t beat it. 20 years ago trade deficit would run at a clip of $15-16B a month, and that would shake financial markets. Today it shows $60-64B and nobody seems to care. BTW, although the amount of goods we buy and sell has increased within the past 20 years, it has not been 4 times larger but the deficit is. Wonder why? the external debt...
Why the external debt is worse than internal? Once I calculated what a payout on $100 worth of a 30-year bond with a 6% interest would be at maturity considering inflation (not the official 2% inflation, mind you). It came to about $28 – everything, the principal plus the interest for 30 years. Although my computations were rough, I think that a more scientific approach would produce similar results as the buying power of the dollar is at least 4 times lower than it was 30 years ago. But inflation is a problem, too, though nowhere near the level of third-world countries...
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
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Points: 1191
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Posted: February 27 2007 at 09:18 |
The T wrote:
IVNORD wrote:
The T wrote:
I would agree... I used to come here only once a year, and I didn't see any changes... but now that I live here, and under the magnificent presidency of W. , I've seen a lot of prices go higher...
But MY country inflation used to be a disaster when we had our own currency (SUCRE)... we had to lose it and adopt the US dollar and now inflation is on the low 5's, just one-figure inflation... we used to have more than 30% annual ... we had to get rid of our own currency... that's what happens when your governments are CRAP. |
Sucre? Is it Bolivia? |
No, Ecuador. The Mariscal Antonio Jose de Sucre was a key figure in the independence of many southamerican nations, mine (which was part of La Gran Colombia) included.... that's why we had our currency named after him... sadly, the currency went down the drain, so it wasn't the highest of honors for the Liberator |
I’ve never heard of Sucre. I guess the second Bolivian capitol is named after him. As per currency honors, the Venezuelan Bolivar’s fate has been quite similar.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: February 26 2007 at 16:23 |
^ Took the words right out of my mouth? The burden we inherit by the
outragious federal debt will be what the good part of our adult lives
are spent figuring out.. The scary thing is the debt we are
accumulating now is one unlike we've had in our history, as it is owed
to foreigners and not to our own citizens.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: February 26 2007 at 14:58 |
IVNORD wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The US's inflation is well under control; Really? with gasoline at 90 cents in 1999 and close to $3 just recently? Yes, but that's not only because of pure economic market inflation, but because the money-hungry b*****ds sons of bitches who own the Oil companies want to have more $ after they retire (like the former CEO of Exxon-Mobil who retired with more than a hundred million dollars...) Also because they push their political agenda (the same as W, our "bright" president) and becuase there's a war in the middle east that drives the cost of the oil barrel towards the sky... everything fits, war, oil prices go up, W's friends get richer, the war goes on... do the math.... there are much more pressing economic problems for the US. would you name a few? Economic problems? The trade deficit with China, the external debt... But inflation is a problem, too, though nowhere near the level of third-world countries...
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The T
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
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Posted: February 26 2007 at 14:54 |
IVNORD wrote:
The T wrote:
I would agree... I used to come here only once a year, and I didn't see any changes... but now that I live here, and under the magnificent presidency of W. , I've seen a lot of prices go higher...
But MY country inflation used to be a disaster when we had our own currency (SUCRE)... we had to lose it and adopt the US dollar and now inflation is on the low 5's, just one-figure inflation... we used to have more than 30% annual ... we had to get rid of our own currency... that's what happens when your governments are CRAP. |
Sucre? Is it Bolivia? |
No, Ecuador. The Mariscal Antonio Jose de Sucre was a key figure in the independence of many southamerican nations, mine (which was part of La Gran Colombia) included.... that's why we had our currency named after him... sadly, the currency went down the drain, so it wasn't the highest of honors for the Liberator
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: February 26 2007 at 09:24 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The US's inflation is well under control; Really? with gasoline at 90 cents in 1999 and close to $3 just recently? there are much more pressing economic problems for the US. would you name a few?
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