Edenbridge falls victim to witchhunt

Tarcisio Moura wrote: I thank everyone who wrote me and to the site for the opportunity to bring this subject on. I´d like to apologise profusely for the harsh and wrong words and claims  and if anyone felt insulted, I ask forgiveness. I owe this site a lot and never wanted to bring any trouble to it or anyone involved. I keep my critics to the new policies. I will not bring any more polemics to this forum or this site in the future. Thanks for the attention Respectfully Tarcísio B. Moura

MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ you think posts like this one improve things? Please be more specific.

Well, sometimes it improves, when the person that did something in a bad way thinks about what he has done.

Anyway it is not the case with you, Mike, but there are people abusing in offensive contents without a good reason. And people who are not newbies.

^ you think posts like this one improve things? Please be more specific.

TheProgtologist wrote: I am stunned by this.What a petty,juvenile reaction.In the Edenbridge thread we explained to you why they were rejected,and you were very gracious and civil with your responses.Now you hit us with this?   Mike can speak for himself but I personally am pretty mad.Not offended....but MAD.That you call the integrity of not only the PMT but the specialist teams in general into question is way out of line.   Quite frankly,this is a case of you not getting your way and throwing a fit,and I am sick of this kind of behavior.Not only from you but from quite a few other people here.We work extremely hard here(in our FREE TIME),and some people perform more than one duty.   Most of the time the work the PMT does is ignored.The only time we are even noticed is when someone has a complaint with a band we added,or one we didn't add.   No one EVER makes a thread or sends us a message congratulating us on a job well done.I don't need a pat on the back but people like you and the other haters here are pretty de-motivating.

TheProgtologist wrote: BaldFriede wrote: Interesting that you think so, Tarcisio, but that's nothing more than an unfounded feeling. I have exactly the opposite feeling: Too much metal is accepted in here which does not really deserve the name "prog". Now who of us is right?Having said that: I am still waiting for Echo City (featuring Guy Evans of Van der Graaf Generator; one of the most avantgarde bands there are) to be added, or Cosmic Explosion (a krautrock all-star band). It seems though that both the Experimental and the Krautrock team have to do overtime. The albums of Cosmic Explosion are no longer available, by the way; they were limited pressings of a few thousand only. Both Echo City and Cosmic Explosion were suggested at least half a year ago.   I am tired of the PMT getting this kind of flack for working TOO HARD.   I will not be made to feel guilty or get critisized because we consistently do our job.

I hear you Jody. You guys work very hard, and do not have an open door policy on metal bands. This case proves it. I know you are constantly pressured for additions, and you do your best to evaluate the candidates. The PM Team's integrity should not be in question. So, clappies to the Metal Men.

Seriously, what on Earth is the point of this thread?

Ok, you think a band is Prog and some other people do not. I don't see the problem. Opinions will always differ - live with it. This is only a website, it doesn't matter whether it lists a certain band as Prog or not, you are still free to view the band as Prog in real life regardless of what this particular set of 0's and 1's says, no need to get rude.

Also, I don't think the band themselves care a bit about what this site does or doesn't label them as, so why should you? I suggest spending your time doing something more useful than behaving silly on the internet.

TheProgtologist wrote: I am stunned by this.What a petty,juvenile reaction.In the Edenbridge thread we explained to you why they were rejected,and you were very gracious and civil with your responses.Now you hit us with this?   Mike can speak for himself but I personally am pretty mad.Not offended....but MAD.That you call the integrity of not only the PMT but the specialist teams in general into question is way out of line.   Quite frankly,this is a case of you not getting your way and throwing a fit,and I am sick of this kind of behavior.Not only from you but from quite a few other people here.We work extremely hard here(in our FREE TIME),and some people perform more than one duty.   Most of the time the work the PMT does is ignored.The only time we are even noticed is when someone has a complaint with a band we added,or one we didn't add.   No one EVER makes a thread or sends us a message congratulating us on a job well done.I don't need a pat on the back but people like you and the other haters here are pretty de-motivating.

It´s not really the case of getting things done my way. If so, I would never write, since I am very aware that saying what I said killed any chances for the band to be included. Ok, fine, maybe I have used the wrong words, maybe I was too heavy handling my thoughts. But I do too felt mad since we do write our bands biography, do everything in our hands to have them in PA and what do we get back? Nothing. Unless you start a threat and make some stir you are ignored, the band rejected,  and no explanations given. I think a lot of this misunderstanding could be avoided if only some decent information could be delivered to the ones concerned.

Having said that, yes, I think it´s time to shut down this threat. I thank everyone who wrote me and the site for the oportunity to bring this subject on.

I´d like to apoligise profusely for the harsh and wrong words, claims  and if everyone felt insulted, I ask forgiveness. I owe this site a lot and never wanted to bring any trouble to it. I keep my critics to the new policies. I will not bring any more polemics to this forum or this site in the future.

Thanks for the attention

Respectfully

Tarcísio B. Moura

Maybe it would be better to close this thread to prevent further angry feelings among members? I think the issue has been discussed enough.

I am stunned by this.What a petty,juvenile reaction.In the Edenbridge thread we explained to you why they were rejected,and you were very gracious and civil with your responses.Now you hit us with this?

Edited by TheProgtologist - February 22 2007 at 09:15

Tarcisio Moura wrote: Dear Mike: Thanks for your answer. I never said you said that. Someone else did, but please, I´m not telling any names. I should point out that you were really respectful all the time. I surely don´t agree with your statement, but I´m glad you gave me a complete explanation now. I did not know it was a matter of how much prog. I though, maybe incorrectly, that a band that had such elements should be here. As long as some other metal bands, who has much less progressive characteristics are here (like Triumph, to name just one) I thought it would be only fair to include them also. I do regret using the word witch hunt, it was quite a mistake, I believe. Maybe I should use the word purge, since I think there IS a change and some bands are being rejected now, whereas some time ago they´d be easily welcomed in. Best regards Tarcísio B. Moura

Thanks! I did not take your comments personally, and I didn't think you were referring to me (I know who you were referring to though).

What you need to understand is that the prog metal team was created at a time when many controversial bands were already in the database. Rhapsody, Nightwish, Triumph ... these are bands which most of us consider to be borderline prog at best ... they're certainly not suitable as a point of reference when judging new additions.

Like I said above: I invite you to create an account at PROGtology.com - there the progressiveness of bands is determined by a majority vote ... it's all 100% democratic. I'm not saying that it's a better approach - it's simply different. And on your user page the bands will be listed with the genre that *you* assigned - so you can show people how you see the world of prog (and beyond).


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - February 22 2007 at 05:41

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Tarcisio Moura wrote: Yes, that´s really what scares me. I don´t agree, much less was I convinced. I still wonder if we are talking about the same band at all. To call Edenbridge a straight power metal band is... well, I don´t want to go any further, all I say is that I  can´t think of one heavy metal fan who will agree with that remark. Read my replies to them. best wishes Tarcísio B. Moura For the record: I never said that they were a "straight" Power Metal band ... but the prog elements which their music undoubtedly contains are simply not enough for me to "recommend" their inclusion. If you take any of their albums and compare it to any Rhapsody album, you'll find that the Rhapsody album is much more complex in songwriting and arrangement. And Rhapsody is a band which is under constant attack or criticism in the archives ... On my website I have 6 steps of progressiveness: 0: Not progressive 20%: Slightly progressive 40%: Moderately progressive (Prog-Related) 60%: Progressive 80%: Very progressive 100%: Extremely progressive In all honesty Edenbridge - for me - are well below the 40% mark ... and Rhapsody are right between the 40% and 60%, it depends on whether the mere combination of classical music and power metal is progressive to you or not. If not, then you could even say that Rhapsody are not progressive at all - it's all a question of how you define prog. So: If a metal band with a female, semi-operatic vocalist, strings and the occasional time signature change is prog to you, then so is Edenbridge. To me it is "just" symphonic metal, which can be highly enjoyable too. "Not prog" does not mean that it's bad!

Dear Mike:

Thanks for your answer. I never said you said that. Someone else did, but please, I´m not telling any names. I should point out that you were really respectful all the time. I surely don´t agree with your statement, but I´m glad you gave me a complete explanation now. I did not know it was a matter of how much prog. I though, maybe incorrectly, that a band that had such elements should be here. As long as some other metal bands, who has much less progressive characteristics are here (like Triumph, to name just one) I thought it would be only fair to include them also. I do regret using the word witch hunt, it was quite a mistake, I believe. Maybe I should use the word purge, since I think there IS a change and some bands are being rejected now, whereas some time ago they´d be easily welcomed in.

Best regards

Tarcísio B. Moura