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Jim Garten 
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
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Points: 14693
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 Topic: Boston Police are idiots
Posted: February 08 2007 at 07:22 |
Only in a generalised way... 
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: February 07 2007 at 11:35 |
.... or an idiot? 
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: February 07 2007 at 07:46 |
 OpethGuitarist wrote:
Sorry Bob, wasn't meant to imply it was just you directly, as there also have been comments from Sean Trane and Jim Garten, among others.
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Guilty as charged, too.
I still consider the thread title to be inappropriate, but as Admin have decided to allow the title to stay unchanged, I bow to their decision.
No offense meant OG - just saying what I feel; incidentally, I'm not from Boston... or a policeman 
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20239
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Posted: February 07 2007 at 04:21 |
OpethGuitarist wrote:
Sorry Bob, wasn't meant to imply it was just you directly, as there also have been comments from Sean Trane and Jim Garten, among others. |
Guilty as charged your honour!!  
But I do confirm what I said in that last post, and still think a better thread title would've given a much more positive slant to your thread.
But obviously if the thread is still alive now, it is not that offensive either.
Do what you feel like!!
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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OpethGuitarist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 25 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1655
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Posted: February 06 2007 at 18:10 |
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Sorry Bob, wasn't meant to imply it was just you directly, as there also have been comments from Sean Trane and Jim Garten, among others.
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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: February 06 2007 at 17:17 |
I don't remember saying or implying that Joey, and I deliberately didn't ask you to change the title.
I've only made one "Admin" post in this thread, and that was a general comment reminding everyone that all our members are entitled to the same level of respect. The other post of mine made clear it was a personal view, I was merely participating in the discussion.
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OpethGuitarist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 25 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1655
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Posted: February 06 2007 at 17:08 |
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Thanks for your thoughts James. I agree with a lot of it, especially the public calling it a hoax when that is obviously not the case.
Towards others that would like to see the title changed. I am a bit surprised. Threads calling out and attacking other prominent officials, often with much more derogatory remarks, (see any political thread here) are rarely if ever commented on. While here, there seems to be a big fuss over my thread title. I assume that is because police can often be seen as citizens as well, and are much more likely of a position to hold than being a government official - they are seen as "normal" folks just trying to make a living.
Regardless, I think it's being a bit over the top to ask me to change it. I PM'd Bob about it to get a clearer understanding and I think I know where he was coming from. It seems my views about use of ideas, and the freedom to express them, clash with some of the other, and it seems senior and more important members here. If so, maybe this is not the right place for me. I have come to the point where I don't enjoy posting as much as I used to (even though I never posted a lot) but given the situation, maybe I should just stick to reviewing. I don't plan on leaving the site, but maybe the forums are not for me.
Regards,
Joey - OG
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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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James Lee
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 05 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3525
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Posted: February 06 2007 at 16:49 |
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Hmmm.
1. Yes, you can blame the police for some of the problem. They have a bomb squad; how long did it take them to get to the scene and determine that the device was innocuous? The local government seems to be reacting mainly on how disrupted the city was by the scare, and to me that seems to be tacitly admitting that their own civil infrastructure is sluggish and bumbling.
2. Or you can blame the person who called in the situation. 10 cities, 40 devices per city, and then several weeks later...one lone transit worker complains. Maybe we should check to see if that person is getting some cash from Turner. Plots within plots...
3. Did anyone do their homework? ATHF may not be a household name, but I've been watching it for years and so have millions of other people. But you don't have to be a fan to know it exists and know not to take it seriously. (makes me think of Spinal Tap..."I wouldn't worry about it. It's not a big college town.")
4. Stop calling it a hoax, already. "Hoax" implies misleading intent. Show me any evidence of that. Anywhere. (Now if it was actually shaped like a bomb, that would be one thing. Oh, yeah, that's been done- for Mission Impossible 3. Remember all the furor that caused? Neither does anyone else)
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Forgotten Son
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 13 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1356
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Posted: February 05 2007 at 11:23 |
Sean Trane wrote:
[
I think that Bob's biggest annoyment is the thread title, and from an Admin POV, I can see where his point is very valid.
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Oh, in that case I agree fully.
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: February 05 2007 at 07:32 |
Forgotten Son wrote:
Jim, Generalisation? Hardly. I was careful to say "often". How you interpret "often" is up to you. |
Maybe I came across as a little heavy handed in my response, if so, I apologise - I think my general beef is that it seems sometimes that the police in general come in for a huge amount of flak and in some quarters it is seen as 'cool' to show little respect for them - when I see this, (or perhaps when I believe I see it  ) I see red.
Sean Trane wrote:
If the thread originator could change the title as to not be so insulting, much less fuss would be made |
Edited by Jim Garten - February 05 2007 at 07:34
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20239
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Posted: February 05 2007 at 06:09 |
Forgotten Son wrote:
Easy Livin wrote:
With my admin hat on, please also bear in mind that some of our members will be in the police. They are entitled to the same respect as the rest of our members in these parts. |
That wasn't meant as a slight, though I can definately see why it could be taken that way. During my time as a criminology student, looking at police culture, however, it's fairly clear that, although generally well intentioned, they can be heavy handed and discriminatory, whether they're nice people or not.
My comments, probably weren't put very well, however I felt the need to challenge your argument that they do a tough job and thus we should be lenient in our judgment. Such a view can be incredibly dangerous, so I don't think we should ignore blatant mistakes and overreaction on the part of people in places of authority and responsibility. Imagine, for instance, if the person had rung up an told them about a person that they thought was looking suspicious and then they went and forcefully arrested them. Would cutting the police some slack be acceptable then?
Jim,
Generalisation? Hardly. I was careful to say "often". How you interpret "often" is up to you.
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I think that Bob's biggest annoyment is the thread title, and from an Admin POV, I can see where his point is very valid.
If the thread originator could change it as to not be so insulting, much less fuss would be made....
Thanks for doing so ASAP.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Forgotten Son
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 13 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1356
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Posted: February 05 2007 at 05:21 |
Easy Livin wrote:
With my admin hat on, please also bear in mind that some of our members will be in the police. They are entitled to the same respect as the rest of our members in these parts. |
That wasn't meant as a slight, though I can definately see why it could be taken that way. During my time as a criminology student, looking at police culture, however, it's fairly clear that, although generally well intentioned, they can be heavy handed and discriminatory, whether they're nice people or not. My comments, probably weren't put very well, however I felt the need to challenge your argument that they do a tough job and thus we should be lenient in our judgment. Such a view can be incredibly dangerous, so I don't think we should ignore blatant mistakes and overreaction on the part of people in places of authority and responsibility. Imagine, for instance, if the person had rung up an told them about a person that they thought was looking suspicious and then they went and forcefully arrested them. Would cutting the police some slack be acceptable then? Jim, Generalisation? Hardly. I was careful to say "often". How you interpret "often" is up to you.
Edited by Forgotten Son - February 05 2007 at 05:25
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: February 05 2007 at 03:19 |
Damn you both - I was going to say that, too 
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Empathy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1864
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Posted: February 04 2007 at 23:44 |
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Pure Brilliance:
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el böthy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 27 2005
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 6336
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Posted: February 04 2007 at 22:28 |
zappaholic wrote:
This is just further proof that the terrorists have won.
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You know what we need to fight back terrorism? More cowbell!
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"You want me to play what, Robert?"
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: February 04 2007 at 11:21 |
Man, if this happened in Fort Wayne...wait, what am I saying???....this would NEVER happen in Fort Wayne! We'd probably just kiss the floor the perpetrators walk on for giving us the attention! We've basically had a frenzy over a passing comment by Colts coach Dungy about maybe holding the Superbowl in FW. So silly. Look on the bright side, though. At least the Boston police aren't portrayed as badly as they were in The Departed. 
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: February 04 2007 at 11:14 |
Heavyfreight wrote:
OpethGuitarist wrote:
It's become a sort of culture in America, to never admit failure on your own part and always pass the blame on to someone else.
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Not just in America. The UK Labour party seem to have gone well up this road in the last few years. |
You stole my thunder, I was going to say something similar to this! It's not just the British government mind you.
Edited by Geck0 - February 04 2007 at 11:14
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20239
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Posted: February 04 2007 at 06:12 |
Empathy wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
Some people better lighten up. In Europe, this would be drawing laughter all over.
But then again we (as a society) are less uptight to get bombed over because our foreign policies area little less encumbersome.
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Now that's a cleverly delicate way of putting it!
Every other city in the U.S. is surely laughing at Boston.
Just to add a little more background to the situation... I'm sure part of the reason for the (over)reaction on the part of the Boston PD and the FBI was the fact that 2 of the planes that were part of 9/11 left from Boston's airport.
I'm not originally from Boston, but I've lived here for over 15 years now... and I can say that I've never encountered a more uptight or self-important city. Let me put it this way... the author Oliver Wendell Holmes once wrote something to the effect of "Boston is the Hub of the Universe"... and the local news here STILL commonly refers to Boston as "The Hub".
This is why the Boston government will NEVER admit any kind of error in this fiasco.
I think the most important conclusion we can draw from this whole experience is that there's no problem with the fact that we're bombarded every waking moment of our lives with marketing and advertising...
but only through offically approved channels!
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That could be a good reason for this development.
While New England is vmy fave part of the US, I always did find Bostoners a bit snobbish and pretentious. I s'pose it comes from the Mayflower and later the Boston Tea Party, thinking that they are the historical center of America.
I never even knew that two of those four planes ook off from Boston, though
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
|
|
Neil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 04 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1497
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Posted: February 04 2007 at 04:30 |
OpethGuitarist wrote:
It's become a sort of culture in America, to never admit failure on your own part and always pass the blame on to someone else.
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Not just in America. The UK Labour party seem to have gone well up this road in the last few years.
Edited by Heavyfreight - February 04 2007 at 04:30
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When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory.
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Ghandi 2
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1494
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Posted: February 04 2007 at 00:49 |
1800iareyay wrote:
The guys who were arrested were hilarious! When they were interviewed, they refused to talk about the incident and instead only accepted questions dealing with the evolution of hairstyles. The idiotic media didn't know how to react! |
Yeah, they're so stupid for not knowing how to react to random stupidity!
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Boston Police are idiots
