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goose 
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Joined: June 20 2004
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 Topic: re-submission of RHAPSODY biographie
Posted: November 10 2006 at 23:56 |
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Outpernicketed?
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Fitzcarraldo
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Posted: November 10 2006 at 18:31 |
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Actually, on this side of the Pond it's "pernickety", Peter, although I understand that in the US of A "persnickety" is used. And, from what you say, in Canada too, apparently.
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Ktrout
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Posted: November 10 2006 at 04:48 |
My submission for the final paragraph;
Following the release of “Symphony of
Enchanted Lands II - The Dark Secret”, RHAPSODY were forced for
legal reasons to change their name, opting instead for the title
RHAPSODY OF FIRE. On the subject of that album, it is the
manifestation of all the experience the band have gained producing
five albums previous to it and is without doubt a masterpiece.
Christopher Lee narrates much of the storyline in a diverse album
that will appeal to a greater portion than merely the fan of the
power metal genre. I go as far as to recommend it and the band to all
who enjoy first class musicianship and skillful composition.
btw English is my mother tounge 
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Peter
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Posted: November 09 2006 at 22:42 |
 Fitzcarraldo wrote:
Thanks for your comments, Peter.
It’s just because I’m a pernickety so-and-so, so just ignore me. A big “thank you” for submitting the biography, and I hope you’ll submit others in future.  |
You're welcome, Fitzroy!
 "Er, that's PERSNICKETY," said the even more persnickety so-and-so. 
Edited by Peter Rideout - November 09 2006 at 22:47
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Peter
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Posted: November 09 2006 at 22:37 |
Again, I highly recommend downloading a Google (or similar) spell-check tool bar, for internet/forum writing.
It's free, and I use it all of the time. (We all make typos, and some words are quite tricky to spell.)
SENTENCE, for example.... 
BTW, Kilgore Trout (Vonnegut fan, are you?  ), I found the quality of your writing to be very good, overall -- especially if English is not your mother tongue! 
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Ktrout
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Joined: April 29 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 11
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Posted: November 09 2006 at 12:20 |
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It's cool, I appreciate the corrections. Personally I prefer plural treatment of the band, perhaps that may remain unchanged. As to 'resultant' however - I see what you mean. Perhaps that sentance is best rendered "I go as far as to recommend it and the band
to all who enjoy first class musicianship and skilful composition." Or something.
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Tony R
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Posted: November 08 2006 at 19:53 |
...  ....
you guys....get lives......
err I mean get a life!
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Fitzcarraldo
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Posted: November 08 2006 at 18:31 |
Whoops. Apologies re the typo, Ricochet.
Thanks for your comments, Peter. The “ever-expanding” I had already spotted and fixed, but had not noticed the “biographie”. I’m guessing Ktrout is a native French speaker, so his English is excellent -- a darn sight better than my French, that’s for sure.
Anyway, it’s Ktrout’s party so I’ve changed the text in the biography to assume RHAPSODY is plural as, putting grammar to one side, it’s common usage.
Sorry if I’ve turned this thread into a dissection of the grammar in the biography you wrote, Ktrout. It’s just because I’m a pernickety so-and-so, so just ignore me. A big “thank you” for submitting the biography, and I hope you’ll submit others in future.
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Peter
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Posted: November 08 2006 at 17:46 |
Okay, I'll chime in, but with a caveat: though I'm indeed a qualified English teacher, I am human, and can make mistakes. I am not a walking grammar text (nor do I have such a reference book in front of me now), and I don't consider the minutiae of grammatical rules to be my strongest suit. I will do my best to help, though.
Firstly, my PA colleague Fitzcarraldo is on the right track, I think. I don't like "a resultant," because "resultant" is most commonly an adjective. The usual noun form is simply "result." Thus, "the rhapsody which results" or "the rhapsody resulting from" sounds better, and less artificial to me, as well.
Re the name of a band as a collective noun, yes, singular band names are collective nouns, but again, as Fitz points out, how we refer to them can depend upon the structure of the name -- most particularly, whether the band name ends in "S," to imply a plural. Thus "the Beatles were popular" works, but "Talking Heads was good" does not. You might say "Radiohead is good stuff " (sing.), but "Radiohead are a good band" just sounds less artificial to me than "Radiohead is a good band."
It's all a bit confusing, but I tend to simply treat band names as plurals, and structure my sentence accordingly: "The Beatles are sorely missed." "Queen are great, but they're not prog."
It's not just a strict matter of grammar -- usage and individual writing style play a role in these things as well.
"The football team is winning" and "the orchestra is tuning up" are correct, but "Led Zeppelin are on stage" sounds better to me than "is."
Collective nouns or not, I think band names are generally treated as plurals. I would write "Dream Theater play prog metal," not "Dream Theater plays prog metal."
Confused yet? 
One final thing: "ever expanding" acts as one adjective, so it should be hyphenated to read "ever-expanding."
Gosh! I'm at home now, so why am I still working?
PS: It's " biography" in English.
Edited by Peter Rideout - November 08 2006 at 17:51
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Fitzcarraldo
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Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1835
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Posted: November 08 2006 at 15:36 |
Hi Ktrout,
The clause inside the commas, which explains the "rhapsody", has basically the same meaning as your original. In any event, I have now changed the sentence to use your original "the rhapsody that is a resultant of the band's". I should say, though, that I think "the rhapsody that is a result of the band's" -- or, perhaps, "the rhapsody resulting from the band's" -- would sound less stuffy, but it's not important.
As for treating the name of a group/band as a collective proper noun, as far as I'm aware that is grammatically correct given that the words "band", "group" and "orchestra" are collective nouns, and the name of a group is the name given to the collective. It's not a big deal, but to use the plural sounds wrong to me when referring to an entity with a single (collective) name. The same applies in the case of companies and organisations, too. For example, one would not say "EXXON sold one of their subsidiaries yesterday"; one would say "EXXON sold one of its subsidiaries yesterday". But I'm being pernickety, I know. 
As far as groups/bands are concerned, I find it sounds worse not to treat a group's name in the singular in some cases than in others. For example, "UK played their final concert today" sounds wrong to me ("UK played its final concert today" sounds better to me, UK being the name given to a group, a single entity) whereas "The Beatles played their final concert today" sounds OK to me, given that the name of the group (a collective noun) is in the plural. I know people say things like "Paul McCartney is a Beatle" but imagine if people were to say "Brian May is a Queen". 
Anal, I know, especially as this is only an amateur music site with many members whose mother tongue is not English (some of whom speak better English than many of the native speakers, though), hardly the English Department at Oxford University.
Perhaps any members who are experts in the English language would care to comment? I believe Peter Rideout is a teacher of English, so he may wish to add a note here.
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Ktrout
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Joined: April 29 2006
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Posted: November 08 2006 at 13:48 |
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Thank's very much. Your changes are however slightly dubious (unless I am mistaken in which case don't feel obliged to be polite - say so);
"I recommend it and the band
to all who enjoy first class musicianship, skilful composition and
classical/baroque/medieval styles of music; the rhapsody, a resultant
of the band’s incorporation of music from these periods into power
metal with such individuality and skill, deserves to be experienced by
everyone."
The comma seems to me a bad idea if we consider that the sentance is meant to read
"the rhapsody that is a resultant
of" - only I shortened it (perhaps incorrectly) to exclude "that is" leaving "the rhapsody a resultant of". By all means point out if I'm wrong. Perhaps "that is" does have to be in the sentance to preserve its meaning? Or would "such rhapsody, resultant of the band's incorporation" be a better alternative?
Also, "RHAPSODY was forced for legal reasons to change the name" treats a group as singular. Is that not grammatically incorrect? Again I'm quite possibly wrong and please say so should this be the case.
Thanks very much.
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Ricochet
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Joined: February 27 2005
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Posted: November 08 2006 at 11:58 |
okay. (and it's Ricochet,not Richocet)
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Fitzcarraldo
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Posted: November 08 2006 at 10:25 |
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(Personally I prefer the paragraphs in the order Ktrout wrote them, Richocet.)
Anyway, I've updated the group's page, Ktrout, and tweaked the English a tiny, weeny bit (hope it's OK). If you want your real name credited at the end of the bio., instead of "Ktrout" as it is now, then let me know and I'll add it.
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Ricochet
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Posted: November 07 2006 at 16:14 |
Can be done. I would suggest another order of the paragraphs. (how they are currently) III-II-I-IV. how does that sound?
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Ktrout
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Joined: April 29 2006
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Posted: November 07 2006 at 16:07 |
Sorry. I submited that which is current but don't particularly like it. Perhaps I could attach a re-submition. Sorry for the time of whoever has to implement the change... Here goes>>>
RHAPSODY released their first album "Legendary Tales" in
1997. The Italian power metal band incorporate classical and baroque
sounds into their music, a combination which proves to be very
powerful. Each album fits into one ever expanding storyline, "The
Chronicles of Algalord" comparable to the great literary works
of the fantasy genre if we deem musical imagery as viable for such
purpose as the constructs of effective writing. Certainly the band
create the same scale of setting, indeed the same epic atmosphere in
their fantasy work as may be found in such literary tales as the masterworks of
Tolkien.
It is very hard
to draw legitimate comparisons between RHAPSODY and other bands.
Some cite similarities with THERION, who also record with full
orchestra and choir. THERION however combine metal (in some cases,
death metal) with the Wagner school of classical music, creating
large scale Nordic soundscapes. RHAPSODY bring together power metal
with medieval, baroque and classical period music; Vivaldi, Bach,
Paganini, Verdi are all major influences and the result is a
distinctly Italian flavor. Ultimately, RHAPSODY are unique.
The members of RHAPSODY are Alex
Staropoli (harpsichord, keyboard, piano), Luca Turilli (guitars),
Fabio Leone (vocals), Alex Holzwarth (Drums) and Patrice Guers
(bass). All may be considered virtuosos on their respective
instruments. In addition to this 5-piece core, a great many other
musicians, vocalists and even actors have collaborated over the
course of what is now seven albums.
After the release of “Symphony of Enchanted Lands II - The Dark
Secret”, RHAPSODY were forced for legal reasons to change their
name, opting instead for the title RHAPSODY OF FIRE. On the subject
of that album, it is the manifestation of all the experience the band
have gained producing five albums previous to it and is without doubt
a masterpiece. Christopher Lee narrates much of the storyline in a
diverse album that will appeal to a greater portion than merely the
fan of the power metal genre. I recommend it and the band to all who
enjoy first class musicianship, skillful composition and
classical/baroque/medieval styles of music; the rhapsody a resultant
of the bands incorporation of music from these periods into power
metal with such individuality and skill deserves to be experienced by everyone.
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re-submission of RHAPSODY biographie
