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Easy Livin 
Special Collaborator
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 Topic: Why buy cds?
Posted: October 17 2006 at 03:46 |
Progarchives does not support, condone or encourage illegal downloading of music.
The site rules make it clear that illegal activity is not acceptable in this forum, nor is the facilitating or encouraging of illegal activity.
This thread has been closed on the basis of legal advice received.
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superprog
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Posted: October 17 2006 at 03:45 |
if not sure abt the music or no money go ahead and download.
but once u do like it and have cash in hand pls rem to put it back in the hands of those who live off their work or who have expended considerable effort to bring u such art for yr pleasure................
moral: be not the cheap sh*t and respect music and musicians
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Certif1ed
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Posted: October 17 2006 at 03:37 |
 space_craft wrote:
Nmae some musicians who have been made poor by downloading, and i'll show you 100 groups who didn't. |
No-one has been made poor by downloading - that is NOT the issue.
Musicians have not been receiving money that's due to them because of downloading - downloading music without the artist's permission is STEALING.
STEALING is what Record companies have been doing from musicians for generations - are you now saying that it's time the general public got in there for a piece?
The only musicians that will remain will be the ones that the Record companies sponsor if that is the case, as no-one will be able to make an honest living out of music.
For every rich musician you can name, there will be at least 100 poor ones. The fact you've never seen a poor musician clearly proves that you've never been a musician.
Being a musician is like being a professional lottery player.
Edited by Certif1ed - October 17 2006 at 03:37
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Atavachron
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Posted: October 17 2006 at 03:22 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
space_craft wrote:
Name me a poor musician...who has been robbed(?) by illegal downloads? |
Most modern prog artists. As long as you're not selling millions of albums (like Pink Floyd, Yes and Genesis did), you are millions of miles away from the "MTV Cribs" type of lifestyle. |
Yup.
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The Whistler
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Joined: August 30 2006
Location: LA, CA
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Posted: October 17 2006 at 02:50 |
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How odd...this topic is linked to the closing of the Tower Records topic...it's like a concept, uh, not an album. Thingy.
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"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: October 17 2006 at 02:45 |
space_craft wrote:
Name me a poor musician...who has been robbed(?) by illegal downloads? |
Most modern prog artists. As long as you're not selling millions of albums (like Pink Floyd, Yes and Genesis did), you are millions of miles away from the "MTV Cribs" type of lifestyle.
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cuncuna
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Joined: March 29 2005
Location: Chile
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 22:56 |
To fill them with MP3... 
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¡Beware of the Bee!
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 22:51 |
Atavachron wrote:
That's not the issue I'm addressing-- music is work, period. It's like thinking that gardening isn't really work because you're outside with all the lovely flowers, or that data processing isn't work cause you're just sitting there. Are there musicians who've been hurt by downloads? I don't know, but you're making an assumtion.
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Good point, I don't mention moral or economic issues, honestly I believe Downloading is a way of Propaganda, I don't sypathize with the music industry at all, so that's not the point.
I hate Britney Spears and boys/girls bands, but don't tell me they don't work, stealing from the rich is the same crime than stealing for the poor, Britney and her crappy music have a market, they exploit it and that's absolutely legal, she travells most of the year and only knows airports and hotels, she earns the last cent she gains even if we believe her music is crap.
That stupid Robin Hood syndrome of believing that stealing from rich people is OK is just BS.
A person who invents something, writes a book or compose a song is entitled to the last cent his/her contract allows him/her and illegally downloading is a felony, if you believe the law is stupid, then send a letter to your congressman and ask him to propose in the congress that music should be free.
But while it's illegal to download, you're forced to accept the law, as simple as that.
If somebody wants to download, do it at your own risk, but this is a LEGAL SITE, we don't want to know about it, we don't encourage this activities and this thread should be closed because encouraging illegal activities is placing Prog Archives in risk.
Iván
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Atavachron
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 20:08 |
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That's not the issue I'm addressing-- music is work, period. It's like thinking that gardening isn't really work because you're outside with all the lovely flowers, or that data processing isn't work cause you're just sitting there. Are there musicians who've been hurt by downloads? I don't know, but you're making an assumption.
Edited by Atavachron - October 17 2006 at 03:27
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space_craft
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 20:03 |
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Name me a poor musician...who has been robbed(?) by illegal downloads?
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Atavachron
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 19:50 |
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But to say that these people dont *work* - and work hard - at what they do is misled. I don't like any of the artist you mention but that's not the point. I could say the same about Kurt Rongey, Thomas Metcaff, David Bagsby, but they are all superb progressive musicians and deserve every penny of what they earn.
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space_craft
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 19:46 |
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Spice Girls, Sclub7, Backstreet Boys, Westlife, Bouzone, Take That....the list is endless.
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Atavachron
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 19:31 |
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Not sure what you mean by 'manufactured'. If you mean 'pre-fabricated' and foisted on a gullible public like Zep was accused of, that's still work, hard work at that. If you mean 'artificial music' that is composed by someone on a machine, there are some brilliant artists doing just that and working their butts off.
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space_craft
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 19:25 |
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You're not suggesting that manufactured bands music is work?
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Atavachron
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 19:21 |
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What I love about the net is the direct contact I have with an artist or small label, but I still purchase their product and am usually happy that I did-- they paid for it so why shouldn't *I* ?
...and the suggestion that music is not work is folly
Edited by Atavachron - October 17 2006 at 03:24
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space_craft
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 19:15 |
If the media is not to be downloaded why was it invented in the first place? MP3 files are crap, but you can decode them into something a bit more listenable, FLAC is a great format, but takes ages to download.
Points all round, the internet has given us the freedom to do , more or less (at least in civilised counties) what we want. We can get what we want online. Music is big business, but not as big as porn which is free to download (whatever floats your boat).
I have never seen a poor musician, except those who missed the grvy train from the 70's backwards, but there are many of those who are disgustingly rich.
Nmae some musicians who have been made poor by downloading, and i'll show you 100 groups who didn't.
It's all about personal choice, not what rhetoric crap music companies spew time and time again.
Show me a music comapny that has gone to the wall, because of illegal downloading...there are none, nor will they ever be, because enough people wiil go into music shops, or shop online, and buy what they want.
Each to their own condone nor condemn..........a bit like boring religio.n
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 18:55 |
sularetal wrote:
First of all mp3 are really in our lifes. You can download (illegally) almost every cd in just a few minutes (even rare ones). I’m not going to lie here… I have one it many times but only cause I can’t afford buying the cds at all. The best I can do is buy 1 cd every week and I do it by saving money from other stuff that I do (for example I go out with my friends and try not to spend anything, eat home etc).
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IN FIRST PLACE: PROG ARCHIVES DOESN'T ALLOW, ENCOURAGES OR PERMITS ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES IN THEIR FORUM, IF YOU WANT TO ILLEGALLY DOWNLOAD CD'S, DO IT AT YOUR OWN RISK WITHOUT INVOLVING OUR SITE.
___________________________________________________________
Now to the point, you said the magic word ILEGALLY, what differences us from criminals is that we respect the laws, the law may be absurd or even stupid, but it's the law.
I want a Ferrari, I honestly deserve one after working hard for decades but can't afford it, this doesn't allow me to steal one or go to a mechanic with stolen plans and create a copy in fiber glass.
I can afford a Mazda and an old Volvo then I have a Mazda and a 1993 Volvo.
I know it’s really nice to have the cd. You have the booklet, the lyrics, good quality (not like the crappy mp3s) and it’s really nice to have the cd somewhere in your house. Especially in prog (as well as other genres), having the cds is really nice since you never listen to tracks but always to albums.
I believe it's better to have new music, the big bands can afford to self-produce a great quality album, but kids who play in their garages won't survive without the greedy labels.
Rick Wakeman made a crappy contract for his first albums and those were the best ones, he had to wait 25 to release Criminal Record and No Earthly Connection because the label didn't allowed him to do so and you want people to download this music for free when he's receiving a smal potion of what he wrote more than two decades ago?
On the other hand, I really don’t like the fact that from the 15 euro that I give, the musicians take only a very little part. I know, the owners of the music store have to be paid, the record companies have to earn money but the musicians? If there is one reason to buy a cd that would be to financially help the artist.
If you illegally download they don't even get the little part.
That's the world we live in, people with AIDS die in USA because they can't afford US$ 14,000 a year in a cocktail when you can get a generic Indian cocktail for US$ 400.00 a year.
But laboratories won't research if their product is not profitable for them, that's how things work in planet Earth, and believe me, LIFE is much more important than music, you can live without Yes, Genesis or Banco but you can't live without your heart disease medicine.
If you stop buying CD's the labels won't support new artists, sadly that's the consequence.
The guys that organized the Isle of Leeds Festival with musicians as The Who and ELP among others lost all they had because a bunch of hippies destroyed the fences arguing that music should be for free and refused to pay 20 pounds, what was the consequence?...it was the last Great Festival for years because they had accepted credit to pay artists, seccurity, taxes, hostage for the artists, crew, roadies, lights, stages, etc.
The didn't went to the bank and said "I won't pay you because music is not a product" the banks don't care, they just collect the warranties, that's all.
Your alternative is worst, the artists receive a buck or two for a CD, if you illegally download the get NOTHING, there are legal download places wher you get a song for 50 or 90 cents and an album for 3 bucks in 254 KBPS quality.
If you can't afford music then live without it until you can.
Artists in general know that it’s tough to live from their work (IMO it shouldn’t even be called work).
What are you talking about? Not work??? What do you call it fun? Or maybe it's their duty to entertain you for free?
Please pal while you study, receive tips from your daddy or work (Don't know what you do for living), this guys create music and perform it, they eat, live and support a family with the money they receive for giving you music, yes it's little but your proposition is taking them even that little percentage they get.
Or should they get a day job to support your God given right to music?
It's a work, must be see it as a work, if you don't see it as that, then do it by yorself and give it for free.
Not saying we aren’t supporting them by buying cds but there could be better ways. I don’t know… It’s just that to me music is not a product…
Where do you live? In Utopia or in Fantasy Island?
The sad thing is that you know what you say is not truth, this musicians have to:
- Buy instruments (Not cheap)
- Spend a year or more writting music while you and me work.
- Take the risk, if their music is not popular they get NOTHING.
- Pay a producer
- Pay an artist to design their cover.
- Print the beautiful booklet
- Pay taxes for every issue numbered before and for each album released (The Government don't cares if you sell them or not, they charge you anyway)
- Eat.
- Feed a family
- Pay schools, medicines, dooctors, dress and buy special clothes for concerts (Independent musicians can't afford insurance).
- Pay lights, special effects, publicity (If they want to be competitive)
- If they are successful, the Government comes again and charges income tax.
And you want to give them the product of their work for free because you believe music is not a product????????????????
I have a book about Constitutional Law ready for two years, my target public are University students, but the editor (Very interested) has told me to wait because the Peruvian Government allows Universities to copy your books for educational purpose without paying the author.
So, if they don't pay me, I won't give the product of my research for free and the editors won't publish it if they have no profit, so who in hell will write books with this stupid laws?
The same goes for musicians.
Admins: feel free to move this thread. I wasn’t sure were to put it since it doesn’t really fit in the non-prog music.
You're right, this belongs in Sci-Fi section. That's the reason why I'm not cool  I live in real world not in Wonderland.
Iván
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tuxon
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 18:39 |
Atavachron wrote:
CDs all the way but I don't begrudge anyone from an alternative. I just like CDs- I like the quality, notes and packaging, all of it. Plus I like supporting music in general rather than reducing it to some quik-fix like cup 'o soup or something. |
four O' clock time for a cup of prog, more compagny's should do it.
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Atavachron
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 18:33 |
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CDs all the way but I don't begrudge anyone from an alternative. I just like CDs- I like the quality, notes and packaging, all of it. Plus I like supporting music in general rather than reducing it to some quik-fix like cup 'o soup or something.
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Arsillus
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 18:02 |
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Yeah, CDs can be expensive, but get over it. You just have to bite the bullet and go with it. It's the best way to go. Sometimes we just have to realize we can't get everything we want, or as much of it as we want. It's easy to feel like a victim with the prices and everything, but that's just the way it is and there's not much you can do about it.
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Why buy cds?
