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Atavachron 
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 Topic: Rating the Iron Maiden albums
Posted: October 04 2006 at 00:43 |
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I'm tending to agree with darkshade's feeling about 'prog-related' music. The problem lies in the fact that, over time, everyone from the Beach Boys to Nina Hagen may eventually wind up there. Though food for discussion and debate, those artists aren't helpful as a matter of progressive archiving, which is this site's charter last I checked.
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darkshade
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Posted: October 04 2006 at 00:26 |
im not referring to proto-prog, since they are important for people figuring out how exactly prog came to be, i mean it didnt just pop up out of nowhere when King Crimson entered the stage (though some argue that lol)
prog-related, while i think its a good idea theoretically, isnt working like it should be on this site, not that im saying to get rid of it either. if it were, there are SOME bands in that category that would have to be moved since they are too prog to not be mentioned here, Phish being one of them (sorry if im mention them too much)
basically, prog-related shouldnt affect the overall site (top 100, etc..). in a way i wouldnt mind seeing progarchives as a parent website to a lesser site dedicated to prog-related (and maybe proto prog and various sub-sub genres (proto-prog metal))
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Philéas
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Posted: October 03 2006 at 15:35 |
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The problems you bring up are, as far as I'm concerned, reasons to remove the Prog Related and Proto-Prog categories.
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Trickster F.
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Posted: October 03 2006 at 14:26 |
 Easy Livin wrote:
I reckon the wordings for the ratings is right.
5 stars should only go to a prog masterpiece.
4 stars says it is an excellent addition to any prog collection, which does not imply the album must be entirely prog.
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Could you elaborate a little more, Bob?  I am trying to follow the guidelines 1-to-1 when reviewing, so it would be nice to know the position of the site about 4-star reviews to non-prog albums.
I think that if there is mentioned a 'prog collection', then it is logical that it consists of prog albums not just great music in general. Therefore, I give maximum 3 stars even to masterpieces of music that are not prog in any way.
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JohnGargo
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Posted: October 03 2006 at 14:16 |
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I reviewed the first four Maiden albums just now... in my opinion, they're all 5 star metal releases, but for the purposes of this site the grade's were adjusted accordingly depending on how progressive they are. For instance, the first two albums are metal albums with one or two progressive songs, so I rated them 3 stars. The third album is inching closer towards progression, hence 4 stars, and PIECE OF MIND (in my opinion anyway) is their first full-blown prog-related album, hence 5.
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salmacis
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Posted: October 03 2006 at 08:36 |
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I was, for a time, guilty of giving 5 star reviews out to bands like Queen and Styx. Listening back, I think this was a mistake so I lowered them- it's probably true that no prog related album should really get 5 stars. I'm not going to review any Iron Maiden albums as for all the prog content there's a substantial amount that isn't- this will give the impression of a weak album if I review them here, which most of them certainly are not.
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Bilek
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Posted: October 03 2006 at 05:56 |
Prog-related section must have a different status; I don't know how to do that, but for instance the reviewed albums shold not be featured in the front page etc. This must be done after removing Peter Gabriel elsewhere, of course 
ratings influence any album's status in the overall site, so there's a chance that a not-really-prog album might find its way to prog top 100 because of high ratings it receives from die-hard fans. on the other hand, rating them low (by others than the fans) is not a solution since it would be unfair to degrade a good album, just because it's not 100% prog. I wouldn't, for instance, rate Seventh Son of a Seventh Son less than 4 stars, 'cause it's an amazing album (albeit with some fillers, according to me) but I don't think SSoaSS is "an excellent addition to any prog collection"... (it is certainly of interest to progheads, though). they must be featured at a seperate section...
I'm not including so-called proto-prog bands in this proposal, because most of them are indeed prog bands (like The Nice, Moody Blues and Arthur Brown etc.)
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Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret:
Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!)
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Eetu Pellonpaa
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Posted: October 03 2006 at 03:40 |
I believe it's impossible to control which kind of ratings people give to these or any albums, except if the reviews are clearly corrupt in a manner allowing their deletion...  Ofcourse it still good to debate about the intented rating criterias.
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Easy Livin
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Posted: October 03 2006 at 03:32 |
I reckon the wordings for the ratings is right.
5 stars should only go to a prog masterpiece.
4 stars says it is an excellent addition to any prog collection, which does not imply the album must be entirely prog.
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Jared
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Posted: October 03 2006 at 03:28 |
a good point well made; it's a point that I always used to make, and effects considerably more bands than those in the prog related section... 
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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richardh
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Posted: October 03 2006 at 02:44 |
The rating sytem is confusing admittedly (and I'm talking as the bloke who invented it!!).I think you make a good point darkshade and now maybe is the time for an overhaul or at least clarification of what ratings mean regarding bands that are in 'prog related'. 
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darkshade
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 23:11 |
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actually i started a new post on the Phish subject
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Atavachron
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 23:06 |
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Really? Well they're more than welcome in my book. I hope someone Phishes here...
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darkshade
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 23:04 |
Owl 3 wrote:
I'm not real familiar with Phish (other than by reputation) but I think people consider them progressive because they've moved rock music into new directions. But let's hear from some real Phish Phans... |
let's
(they rarely seem to come out of the woodwork on this site)
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Atavachron
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 23:00 |
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I'm not real familiar with Phish (other than by reputation) but I think people consider them progressive because they've moved rock music into new directions. But let's hear from some real Phish Phans...
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darkshade
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 22:51 |
heh i love DiAnno, though i (like many) prefer Dickinson. they HAVE prog-metal songs, it's just their albums as a whole arent prog mostly. but what im trying to say is people giving low ratings because they arent prog is bull. one reviewer said The Number of the Beast was one of his fav albums ever, but gave the album 2 stars on the basis that the band is not prog. my arguement is "they're prog-related, so of course they are not prog. why give a low rating just because of the genre they're listed under on this site.
while we're on genre's on this site, why is Phish under prog-related? every person i know that likes the band, and pretty much every other website in the world lists Phish as a prog band (exactly what genre, idk, maybe art rock?) except this site. when i joined, i was extremely confused as to why they were prog-related. why is this?
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Atavachron
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 22:37 |
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I hear you, darkshade. It seems harder music is a little looked down on right now (though still quite popular). All I can tell you is that I was raised on Maiden as a banger from the early 80s and compared to the metalsmiths who came before them (Sabbath, Preist, Scorps, etc.), they're *quite* progressive and don't let anyone tell you otherwise (though I still like the first two way better than anything that followed-- long live Paul DiAnno!)
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darkshade
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 22:37 |
Atkingani wrote:
Being IRON MAIDEN a prog-related band this thread is going to the right forum! |
sry, since they're on the site now, i thought i could start this thread here. 
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Atkingani
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 22:33 |
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Being IRON MAIDEN a prog-related band this thread is going to the right forum!
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Guigo
~~~~~~
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darkshade
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 22:28 |
I notice Maiden's been added to this site, but ive noticed a HUGE flow of reviews coming in all of a sudden, which is understandable, everyone wants to review their albums (i did)
point is, some reviews argued rating their albums 4 or 5 stars was a bit much, rating them 2 or 3 stars, since they arent a prog band really. but thats why they were put in "PROG-RELATED". so basically i find giving 4 or 5 star ratings to a prog-related band's album on the basis that that they are not prog related. i think the rules are a bit altered when it comes to reviewing that section, or even proto prog. obviously they are not a 'true' prog band, but rating an album 2 stars means the music isnt really that good. i think 3-5 is acceptable if the music is good and KNOWING the band is under prog-related. i personally feel the rating system shouldnt be as strict with this section because they do not necessarily consist of true prog bands. plus, how is a noobie going to know which albums are good if they all have poor ratings?
i hope i got my point across. im having trouble expressing my feelings about this into words |
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Rating the Iron Maiden albums
