Yes’ Topographic Oceans - The debate

That'll be those walking bass lines then...

My typos are really bad today...

Certif1ed wrote: Several things just switch me off about "Tales". First is the overall texture, which rarely changes in any substantial way - - There is little sense of movement in the harmonic texture, which remains around "soft" chords too long for my comfort. - The instrumental texture seems to vary from really good, when the bass and drums get into a groove, to horrible, when some of the naff keyboard sounds shine through. This has nothing to do with indulgence, just bad choice of sounds, IMO. - The vocals are generally quite nasty - I don't like Anderson's "precious" style of singing, and repeated chords on a single note are not virtuosic, they are wearying. The overall vocal harmonic style has not really progressed from Yes' early albums, on which they sounded strikingly like Crosby, Stills and Nash. - There are many sections of repeated motifs, which seem to do little to increase dramatic tension in the piece, and more to make me want to reach for the off switch. When there is so much repetition, I do not understand why people seem to think this music is complex! Most of it seems to be in a standard 4/4 time, and the riffs do not imply further harmony, implying that they are mostly based around single chords. This strikes me as a particularly simple style of writing, even if they do back several riffs together - each one represents a single chord with added jazz harmonics, which is not a particularly challenging method of composition. The "complexities" seem to be ones of perception - all the little technical runs and so forth, which all seem to be an attempt to decorate a very simple and long structure. A classic example of "Emporer's new clothes", it would seem.

I agree with 99% of what Cert says, however

Never heard of "Emporer's new clothes" but have heard of

"The Emperor's New Clothes"

Nick-picky Reed.

Well, I'm listening to Man U v Exeter on the radio and Utd are struggling!

Somebody has to suffer with me!

Several things just switch me off about "Tales".

First is the overall texture, which rarely changes in any substantial way -

- There is little sense of movement in the harmonic texture, which remains around "soft" chords too long for my comfort.

- The instrumental texture seems to vary from really good, when the bass and drums get into a groove, to horrible, when some of the naff keyboard sounds shine through. This has nothing to do with indulgence, just bad choice of sounds, IMO.

- The vocals are generally quite nasty - I don't like Anderson's "precious" style of singing, and repeated chords on a single note are not virtuosic, they are wearying. The overall vocal harmonic style has not really progressed from Yes' early albums, on which they sounded strikingly like Crosby, Stills and Nash.

- There are many sections of repeated motifs, which seem to do little to increase dramatic tension in the piece, and more to make me want to reach for the off switch.

When there is so much repetition, I do not understand why people seem to think this music is complex! Most of it seems to be in a standard 4/4 time, and the riffs do not imply further harmony, implying that they are mostly based around single chords. This strikes me as a particularly simple style of writing, even if they do back several riffs together - each one represents a single chord with added jazz harmonics, which is not a particularly challenging method of composition.

The "complexities" seem to be ones of perception - all the little technical runs and so forth, which all seem to be an attempt to decorate a very simple and long structure.

A classic example of "Emporer's new clothes", it would seem.

Vegetableman wrote: Speaking of TFTO... has anyone noticed that a good number of the big prog bands released a controversial double album after the album widely recognized (I'm saying that very loosely) as their best? ELP - Brain Salad Surgery -> Works Vol. I Floyd - Animals -> The Wall Genesis - Selling England by the Pound -> The Lamb Yes - Close to the Edge -> Tales

Good point (I think?).

One of the reasons might be, they gained confidence to take their ideas one step (or even more steps) further.

BTW. I really love the album, but like Relayer it took me several spins before I got it. And the only reason it isn't a masterpiece (IMO) is because of the keyboards. The vocals, guitar and bass parts are amazing, and the drums are better than OK.

Howe / Anderson were the writing partners for TFTO - They jammed by candlelight according to Jon Anderson....