Winston Churchill was black

Forgotten Son wrote: JJLehto wrote: Geck0 wrote: Actually, that Prince was Archduke Franz Ferdinand and he was shot by a Serbian man, Gavrilo Princip, in the city of Sarajevo (then in Bosnia).  Princip was a member of Young Bosnia. Now, the shooting of an Austrian Archduke in Sarajevo wouldn't normally start a war, so obviously there was more to it than that.  The Great War is one of those odd wars, whereby it was started over something that seemed to be isolated from most of the world, yet escalated into something much bigger.  There are still debates now as to what exactly the causes were, as the assassination was just the final catalyst.   That definatley was the final straw, but as he said  there was ALOT more to it. Basically, since the 1870s (i believe) Germany was growing, in all ways. WHich was  a threat to the current world leaders (Britian, France). So Allinaces, on both sides were formed. Both sides built up their militaries just incase. The Balkans was a land of strife   as many people were fighting over control of it. The assassination was indeed the final straw, tensions broke. I believe it was Britian hat declared war on Germany...thus France and Russia (obliged due to their alliance) got dragged in. The ottoman empire and austria-hungary went with Germany (although Germany basically fought it all) I thought it went like this (you're right up until the order of decalarations of war): There were two alliances, on one side (The Triple Entente which was formed from the Anglo-Russian Entente and the Entente Cordiale) and on the other (Dual Alliance) were Germany and Austria-Hungary. After the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand, Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia. Because of a previous arrangement Russia had to intervene to defend Serbia, leading to Germany declaring war on Russia. Germany expects (rightly) that France will mobilize against them so the Sclieffen plan is put into action France then mobilizes against Germany. As part of the Schlieffen plan, Germany invades Belgium, bringing Britain (and her colonies) into the war. The reason why Germany overlooked Britain was because her army was so small, Germany expected Britain to stay out of the war, or at the least wait a while so that she could gather strength.

JJLehto wrote: Geck0 wrote: Actually, that Prince was Archduke Franz Ferdinand and he was shot by a Serbian man, Gavrilo Princip, in the city of Sarajevo (then in Bosnia).  Princip was a member of Young Bosnia. Now, the shooting of an Austrian Archduke in Sarajevo wouldn't normally start a war, so obviously there was more to it than that.  The Great War is one of those odd wars, whereby it was started over something that seemed to be isolated from most of the world, yet escalated into something much bigger.  There are still debates now as to what exactly the causes were, as the assassination was just the final catalyst.   That definatley was the final straw, but as he said  there was ALOT more to it. Basically, since the 1870s (i believe) Germany was growing, in all ways. WHich was  a threat to the current world leaders (Britian, France). So Allinaces, on both sides were formed. Both sides built up their militaries just incase. The Balkans was a land of strife   as many people were fighting over control of it. The assassination was indeed the final straw, tensions broke. I believe it was Britian hat declared war on Germany...thus France and Russia (obliged due to their alliance) got dragged in. The ottoman empire and austria-hungary went with Germany (although Germany basically fought it all)

I thought it went like this (you're right up until the order of decalarations of war):

There were two alliances, on one side (The Triple Entente which was formed from the Anglo-Russian Entente and the Entente Cordiale) and on the other (Dual Alliance) were Germany and Austria-Hungary.
After the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand, Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia. Because of a previous arrangement Russia had to intervene to defend Serbia, leading to Germany declaring war on Russia. Germany expects (rightly) that France will mobilize against them so the Sclieffen plan is put into action France then mobilizes against Germany. As part of the Schlieffen plan, Germany invades Belgium, bringing Britain (and her colonies) into the war.

The reason why Germany overlooked Britain was because her army was so small, Germany expected Britain to stay out of the war, or at the least wait a while so that she could gather strength.


Edited by Forgotten Son - September 09 2006 at 12:43

JJLehto wrote: Geck0 wrote: Actually, that Prince was Archduke Franz Ferdinand and he was shot by a Serbian man, Gavrilo Princip, in the city of Sarajevo (then in Bosnia).  Princip was a member of Young Bosnia. Now, the shooting of an Austrian Archduke in Sarajevo wouldn't normally start a war, so obviously there was more to it than that.  The Great War is one of those odd wars, whereby it was started over something that seemed to be isolated from most of the world, yet escalated into something much bigger.  There are still debates now as to what exactly the causes were, as the assassination was just the final catalyst.   That definatley was the final straw, but as he said  there was ALOT more to it. Basically, since the 1870s (i believe) Germany was growing, in all ways. WHich was  a threat to the current world leaders (Britian, France). So Allinaces, on both sides were formed. Both sides built up their militaries just incase. The Balkans was a land of strife   as many people were fighting over control of it. The assassination was indeed the final straw, tensions broke. I believe it was Britian hat declared war on Germany...thus France and Russia (obliged due to their alliance) got dragged in. The ottoman empire and austria-hungary went with Germany (although Germany basically fought it all) Causes of WWI: Economic Competition Militarism Nationalism Entangling Alliances

There were treaties as you said, Russia, France and Britain had a mutual protection allance as did Germany, Austro-Hungarian and The Ottoman Empire's. Some "brilliant" German general had this plan that Germany would attack France and then, since it would take so long for the massive Russian army to deploy they (the Germans) would be able to prepare themselfes to counter this attack after finishing off the French. ( I would like to point out that I learnt all this in History 6 years ago, so I may be a little out on some things). I never did learn why the Germans didnt take into account the British, I suspect that they relied on the old animocity between us and the French to prevent us from taking part, which it didnt.

@Darksinger, WWII would have escalated just as fast regadless of certain treaties. The British may have got involved because of Germany's invasion of Poland but by the time the British launched its forces into Europe, they had already attacked France and that would have drawn us into the conflict anyway.

For those going to college now, try to fill in all the gaps that were left by your high school education, particularly in history as shown by the posts above.  My university in particular has one of the finest history departments in the country, and I took classes like History of the Third Reich and History of the French Revolution from world renowned experts in those topics.  Indeed, I even took a class called the History of the 1960s because that time period was never covered in any high school class.

Geck0 wrote: Actually, that Prince was Archduke Franz Ferdinand and he was shot by a Serbian man, Gavrilo Princip, in the city of Sarajevo (then in Bosnia).  Princip was a member of Young Bosnia. Now, the shooting of an Austrian Archduke in Sarajevo wouldn't normally start a war, so obviously there was more to it than that.  The Great War is one of those odd wars, whereby it was started over something that seemed to be isolated from most of the world, yet escalated into something much bigger.  There are still debates now as to what exactly the causes were, as the assassination was just the final catalyst.

Actually, that Prince was Archduke Franz Ferdinand and he was shot by a Serbian man, Gavrilo Princip, in the city of Sarajevo (then in Bosnia).  Princip was a member of Young Bosnia.

Now, the shooting of an Austrian Archduke in Sarajevo wouldn't normally start a war, so obviously there was more to it than that.  The Great War is one of those odd wars, whereby it was started over something that seemed to be isolated from most of the world, yet escalated into something much bigger.  There are still debates now as to what exactly the causes were, as the assassination was just the final catalyst.

Rosescar wrote: Hierophant wrote: Well... lets see 2 years of preschool 1 year of kindergarten 8 years of gradeschool 4 years of high school 1 year of college and counting... Never once learned about: The Vietnam War The Gulf War Iran Contra The Constitution The Cuban Missile Crisis It seems that the schools love spending time on the civil war WWI & WWII and ancient civilizations. You usually get to around 1945 near the end of the year and by that time you'll be lucky if you learned anything new. I never actually touched on the Constitution of the United States until the last year of high school where we briefly touched on it in a college level class that you had to pay extra for. A good 10 years of my life was wasted picking out adjectives and verbs in sentences and trying to multiply two digit numbers. The standard 8 grades should be condensed into 4 and high school from 4 to 2 with an emphasis on math and science. 80% of the material taught in schools is repeated from the first grade. This goes for me, too. I especially hate the terrible emphasis on World War II; especially as a Dutchman, it's really almost all the history you get. I don't know why the hell World War I started - I'm supposed to learn that this schoolyear, and this is my second-to-last schoolyear o_o;; What's even worse is that I don't actually know why WWII started either. As for the intelligence going down... I'm very much afraid so at certain moments. Not so much the marks of my classmates go down, but they're... culturally deprived. I think only me and maybe two others in my class know that Bach is not actually classical music - though, one of the good things is that some people atleast pretend they're very smart and distinguished.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: NaturalScience wrote:   I have no doubt you know much more about US History than a good majority of the high school graduates in this country.   It's not me Natural Science, the only advantage to leave in a country like Perú (Well there are a lot bit not for the majorities), is that we have to learn from the rest of the world, so our education system (That is far from good except in private schools) tries to give a view of the rest of the world and most Peruvians see USA as the center of the world.   I'm sure every Latin American kid knows that Washington is the capital of USA but how many USA students know that Lima, Quito and La Paz are the capitals of Perú, Ecuador and Bolivia?   The problem of USA school system is that you are in fact the most powerful nation and the education system doesn't care about many things like hitory of the resyt of the world or even your own history.   Being a bit more humble will allow students to learn more about the rest of the world.   Iván

Borealis wrote: ^ Velvet Room posters haven't come here yet. Do they feel concerned, or it's too boring ?...         we have produced a generation that expects endless entertainment, and instant gratification via shallow materialism and fashion.   Right on, Peter. What I am the most affraid is not the lack of interest in history (of course, there's a minimum requiered! Nothing in the example posted above should be accepted! You know, not everyone should or has interest in that...), its more about no desire of evolving, growing up spiritually or intellectually. Some said all they can talk about is beer, girl, rock'n'roll and ect... NO, they can't even do that! They says absolutely abything constructive, just throw up a couple of easy cliché all the time and share them with people that think the same too! It's just the 'I get a work, fund a familly, I die' thing. That's ALL.   In Québec's CEJEP (two-three year long school we usually enter at 17), There's is Philosophy class. We are one of the few place in the world that have the oppotunity of having philosophy classes at this low age. And I love those classes! But well, I am of the the very few that doesn't hate it! That make me crazy of seeing them... No one listen, they all are tired and frustrated and fix the clock so the class end. And I won't says what I hear from them... so stupid...   But, isn't this what the governement wants? Dumb workers that keeps their machines running without asking a question, or wanting an answer?

The Lost Chord wrote: I KNEW he was black, i knew it