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purplepiper
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Topic: Jefferson Airplane Posted: August 07 2007 at 19:44 |
psych music was never too far from the borders of progressive music. The airplane is no exception! I personally love 'crown of creation', which is short but undeniably progressive in format. Also, let's not forget 'chushingura'...almost crimson-like!
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for those about to prog, we salute you.
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Garion81
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Posted: March 14 2007 at 13:45 |
^ Actually and surprisingly no at least on the live side. That stuff sounded as fresh as ever because it was the first time it was being played live. They toured as the Airplane until 73-4 (Thirty Seconds over WInterland) and they played no solo material in the AIrplane's sets. This would have been the Dragonfly (Not a bad album) tour and Marty came out and sang Caroline from that album. This was 16 months removed from Red Octupus and super hits pop land.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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oliverstoned
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Posted: March 14 2007 at 04:36 |
Well in 75', they were over anyway.
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Sean Trane
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Posted: March 14 2007 at 04:26 |
Garion81 wrote:
One another note in your commentaries Hughes you mentioned that fist band actually called theJefferson Starship. I saw that band perform in 1975. The band consisted of Kantner/Slick and David Frieburg, Peter Sears (Jeff Beck Group) on bass and keys, John Barbata on drums and Chaquico on lead guitar,. (Grace introduced him as Jail Bait) They played the second side of Blows against the Empire in entirety. As much a prog suite as anything.
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I am green with jealousy , for I was only 12 and even had they come to Canada in 75, I'd probably have missed them anyway.
Edited by Sean Trane - March 14 2007 at 04:26
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let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Garion81
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Posted: March 13 2007 at 19:09 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Easy Livin wrote:
Cheers Hugues, that's really helpful.
Hot Tuna are an old favourite of mine, from way back when I picked an LP by them without a clue who they were. I loved "Hit single number 1" instantly! |
If memory serves, that comes either from America's Choice or Yellow Fever album (that one borders on metal).
But nowadays Hot Tuna is playing acoustic US folk, ranging from Appalachian Folk to Cajun andf from Acadian to Bluegrass and Hillbilly. Not fascinating but both are from West Virginia, which is stuck in the middkle of the Appalachian mountain range (they might even have electricity there nowadays ). |
Yes Jorma was ever a follower of the Rev Gary Davis and his finger picking style of blues. This is not your three chord blues structure of most blues groups of the day. The idea was to pick not just a melody but a contrasting, for lack of a better term, bass line as well. Sort of a counterpoint. Davis was a master of it. Jorma runs a school now called the Fur Peace Ranch where and Jack among others teach this style to a new generation of players.
I thought the Water Song on Burgers and a couple of the songs on Phosphorescenct Rat were pretty stellar if not Prog. Some great playing on those. Jack and Jorma call the albums after that such as America's Choice Hopkorv and Yellow Fever as Hot Tuna the Metal years.
I have seen both versions of Tuna electric and acoustic and I like both but I prefer the acoustic.
One another note in your commentaries Hughes you mentioned that fist band actually called theJefferson Starship. I saw that band perform in 1975. The band consisted of Kantner/Slick and David Frieburg, Peter Sears (Jeff Beck Group) on bass and keys, John Barbata on drums and Chaquico on lead guitar,. (Grace introduced him as Jail Bait) They played the second side of Blows against the Empire in entirety. As much a prog suite as anything.
Great thread.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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micky
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Posted: March 08 2007 at 08:51 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Easy Livin wrote:
Cheers Hugues, that's really helpful.
Hot Tuna are an old favourite of mine, from way back when I picked
an LP by them without a clue who they were. I loved "Hit single number
1" instantly! |
If memory serves, that comes either from America's Choice or Yellow Fever album (that one borders on metal).
But nowadays Hot Tuna is playing acoustic US folk, ranging from
Appalachian Folk to Cajun andf from Acadian to Bluegrass and Hillbilly.
Not fascinating but both are from West Virginia, which is stuck in the
middkle of the Appalachian mountain range (they might even have
electricity there nowadays ). |
been there many times Hugues.. I love the music.... and the
electricity.. hit and miss hahahhaha. It is another world...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Sean Trane
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Posted: March 08 2007 at 08:48 |
Easy Livin wrote:
Cheers Hugues, that's really helpful.
Hot Tuna are an old favourite of mine, from way back when I picked an LP by them without a clue who they were. I loved "Hit single number 1" instantly! |
If memory serves, that comes either from America's Choice or Yellow Fever album (that one borders on metal).
But nowadays Hot Tuna is playing acoustic US folk, ranging from Appalachian Folk to Cajun andf from Acadian to Bluegrass and Hillbilly. Not fascinating but both are from West Virginia, which is stuck in the middkle of the Appalachian mountain range (they might even have electricity there nowadays ).
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let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Easy Livin
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Posted: March 08 2007 at 04:40 |
Cheers Hugues, that's really helpful.
Hot Tuna are an old favourite of mine, from way back when I picked an LP by them without a clue who they were. I loved "Hit single number 1" instantly!
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Sean Trane
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Posted: March 08 2007 at 04:27 |
Easy Livin wrote:
Tell me, what was the relationship between JA and Jefferson Starship, and then Starship?
Was there a change of personnel and style each time? |
The biggest change between Jefferson Starship and Airplane is that both Jack Casady and Jorma Kaukonen (the better musicians in the band) had left and formed Hot Tuna.
I wasn't around, but I heard this from Casady himself: Jack and Jorma loved to play for hours on end and usually extended JA concerts beyond reasonable point, that they first started to have their own slot during the JA concerts, then when Hot Tuna was a side project, they opened for JA, and since they kept playing, apparently they were holding JA to appear. So they were told to play after JA also if they wished. The duo could go on to play some six or seven hours/night.
So the Airplane was a psych-band and a jam-band, but their constant groundbreaking (the parts I highlighted in red in the reviews) made them progressive, hence proto-prog
All these albums are worthy of inclusion in prog related , IMHO!
But when JA's final moments did come in 73, Jack and Jorma's Hot Tuna (first name was hot sh*t >> vetoed) was a complete group, pumping out some very solid album (Phosphorescent Rat and Burgers), but Hot Tuna is nothing prog except the brilliant virtuosi qualities from the duo.
So when the rest of group did get back together, they changed the name to Jefferson Starship (for contractual and human reasons.
They actually played some pretty good RnR in their first two albums, (with original singer Marty Balin back in the fold) but the weak point is that there were so many songwriters trying to get their songs in the albums that this was creating tensions, so they started writing communally, unfortunately taking away the personal sides of most songs. They quickly became one of the leader of AOR of the late 70's. Listen to Miracles for the template AOR.
Jefferson Starship is mostly AOR and never had a stable line-up (Journey, also a Frisco band rising from the ashes of the first Santana group, learned everything from them, after Rollie and Dunbar left), but in general Jeffesron Starship is the logical continuation of the last two Airplane studio albums and the Kantner-Slick solo albums, but I do not favor JS in the Archives at all.
When Kantner got really sick of touring in 83 and quite a few increasingly less interesting albums, he was the only old guy around: Freiberg (ex-QMS, not productive), Balin (also not productive and bored) and Slick (substances and alcohol) were gone for various reasons, he tried to stop JS. The rest of the group (all young guys busy to make a career) tried to kick him out highjacked the Jefferson Starship name, got Slick to clean up and come back and started to tour. Kantner won his lawsuit, and the group had to drop the Jefferson part, so then went on as Starship.
We Build This City On RnR was voted as the worst N° 1 ever, a few years back and I really believe this is so. I hated Grace for singing that! She was an icon in my eyes until then, but she destroyed her legend around that time.
Edited by Sean Trane - March 08 2007 at 08:56
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let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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micky
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Posted: March 07 2007 at 16:21 |
Easy Livin wrote:
Tell me, what was the relationship between JA and Jefferson Starship, and then Starship?
Was there a change of personnel and style each time? |
yes and no for personnel and very much so for style .... damn... I
don't want to hijack Hugues thread.. and he can answer it better
than me anyway
Edited by micky - March 07 2007 at 16:21
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Easy Livin
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Posted: March 07 2007 at 16:15 |
Tell me, what was the relationship between JA and Jefferson Starship, and then Starship?
Was there a change of personnel and style each time?
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micky
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Posted: March 07 2007 at 15:57 |
Zappa88 wrote:
This is now part of my official un-official buying guide for my collection hahahaa |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Chris H
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Posted: March 07 2007 at 15:55 |
This is now part of my official un-official buying guide for my collection hahahaa
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Beauty will save the world.
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micky
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Posted: March 07 2007 at 14:59 |
Seyo wrote:
Great work Hugues!
Although I never considered JA as part of "progressive rock", but
rather psychedelic folk rock, given they are among my top favorites I
must congratulate you sincerely.
Excellent essay!
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same here.. which is why I opposed them.. but.. as I told Ivan when ELO
was included... the world didn't stop spinning. and the prog
world is still going strong. and the site hasn't become a joke... at
least not yet that is
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
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Posted: March 07 2007 at 14:57 |
Garion81 wrote:
Great job Hughes! Excellent commentary even if I am one of those Volunteer lovers. |
reading back through this blog...
same here... one of those nuts who thinks the Volunteers was actually
amoung the best albums of the rock era. Fantastic album... even
if Baxters is and will always be my favorite album from them.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Seyo
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Posted: January 29 2007 at 16:37 |
Great work Hugues!
Although I never considered JA as part of "progressive rock", but rather psychedelic folk rock, given they are among my top favorites I must congratulate you sincerely.
Excellent essay!
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Garion81
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Posted: October 13 2006 at 13:45 |
Great job Hughes! Excellent commentary even if I am one of those Volunteer lovers.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Sean Trane
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Posted: August 22 2006 at 06:02 |
JEFFERSON AIRPLANE – Live At The Monterey Festival
For decades, the Airplane's performance at the Monterey Festival (which was part of their legend) was only seen with the movie performance of Today and High Flying Bird, which was only one fifth of their full set. At the start of the 90's, Thunderbolt Records released the full set, which was greatly awaited by fans. Now remember that this recording took place at one single (and legendary) event with all its flaws and lack of experience and technology. So if the recording is not excellent, it is actually quite good, still and quite acceptable for younger generations. Remember that the Monterey Festival took place between their Surrealistic Pillow's release and probably as they were nearing the end of writing the songs of ABA Baxter's.
With the intro presenting the band as "a perfect example of what the world was coming to" and Grace laughing with much of it, the groups launches its set by using their two aces right away: Somebody and Rabbit are first and third in the setrlist and played out faithfully. While Other Side Of This Life and High Flying Bird are both excellent, the gropup is only still getting warmed up and has not yet done any improvisations, playing the songs faithfully. With the superb She Has Funny Cars, they start to digress slightly and by the time of the last track on their set, they were getting warm and gave us ablistering 11-min version of You & Me & Pooneil, with blistering improvs and solos. Sadly the set is a bit too short (always is the case in Festivals) as it was clear that Kaukonen, Casady and Dryden were set for more.
Overall, this live album is just as essential as Bless Its Little Pointed Head and more so than the latter 30 Seconds Over Winterland, which came at the end of the group's life. Somehow, one can hope that one day, the full set that was recorded by cameras will also be available.
JEFFERSON AIRPLANE – JEFFERSON AIRPLANE (89)
Well, I am not sure that JA needed to risk their legend on this album. But after the final crash of that awful Starship (which had lost its Jefferson moniker some four or five years earlier), which had no link at all with the original group, Grace Slick and the other reunited in its almost classic line-up. Everybody was present from either Hot Tuna or other projects. Only Spencer Dryden was missing, and from what I gathered, they simply thought he would not be interestred, which turned out to be false.
But was the Airplane going to succeed in a second take-off, or was this a just-once reunion? Well it turned out to be a one-shot deal and when listening to the album, we can safely say that, it was not going to last too long. After a strong start with the first three songs being of the calibre of bark or LJS, and the excellent Ice Age (Kaukonen-penned), unfortunately when you expect the album to really head for the higher atmosphere with the promising Summer Of Love, things come to an almost-crash. Indeed this Balin-penned track is a syrupy ballad, and no matter how much a frequent Airplane flyer you are, it is insipid and mediocre. Unfortunately, this was not just one air-hole; the flight would become quite turbulent for the rest of the album. On the up-side of things, one could've expected disaster with such a risqué album, but JA avoids a few traps that other classic bands fell into later: the usual awful drumming of that 80's period is not present here (well just one track). Their drummer does have the sound of 80's drummers but plays very much the 70's way throughout most tracks (well playing with Casady as your bassist will kick your butt in to shape), and although not great, the drumming is fitting. I wish groups like T2 or Procol Harum (with the awful Prodigal stranger album), had not fallen into this trap (set by the industry), but JA had too much a rebel attitude left in them, to refuse too much pressure. Unfortunately the second part of the album is made of sub-par tracks that have a filler feeling to them. The instrumental Upfront Blues being the better track in the end of the album, this gives a clear view that most of the members brought their own songs beforehand and therefore few (just one IMHO) were written collegially.
Hardly essential, even for the more die-hard fans, this album is not far from the level of Bark or LJS, and almost on-par with the better Jefferson Starship albums, and certainly better than the dreadful Starship crap discs.
xx
Edited by Sean Trane - August 22 2006 at 06:04
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let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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NutterAlert
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Posted: August 16 2006 at 08:11 |
excellent group..i love this thread
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Proud to be an un-banned member since 2005
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Sean Trane
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Posted: August 16 2006 at 08:05 |
darksinger wrote:
I noticed that Sunfighter and Baron Von Tollbooth and the Chrome Nun were not mentioned. I am hoping that this is an oversight, as I think both of the albums, which fell in the transition period between Jefferson Airplane and Jefferson Starship, are very good. Sunfighter is my favorite of the two, probably because of the more experimental nature of it, "Titanic", "Universal Copernican Chants", the title track and all showing Paul Kanter, as he did on Blows against the Empire, tending towards more science fiction based progressive sound. I have not heard Baron Von Tollbooth for some time, but I still love the song "Sketches of China" off of that album.
Another compilation that seems to be forgotten is Flight Log, which featured material from all of the JA and transition period releases except one, Early Flight, which I presume was released after Flight Log. Flight Log ends on the early Jefferson Starship album-Dragonfly and has an unreleased live song "Please Come Back".
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The couple of Grace Slick and Paul Kantner started an interesting series of three solo (or duo) albums: Blows Against The Empire ( Jefferson Starship ) ****, Sunfighter ** and Baron Von Tolbooth And The Chrome Nun (with Quicksilver MS’s David Freiberg) ***. Warmly recommended and fairly similar in Spirit to JA is Blows against The Empire, especially the second side of the album.
I mention them, but Sunfoghter is definitely inferior to Blows and Baron is too Psyched-out for my tastes although Zappa could appreciate it. But I will re-check out Sunfighter soon. Thanks !!!
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let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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