Author |
Topic Search Topic Options
|
billbuckner
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 07 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 433
|
Topic: Reviews Posted: June 06 2006 at 16:51 |
What annoys me is the one-star reviews with the explination being along
the lines of "It's good, but it's not prog". Okay, it's not prog, then
don't review it, and don't bring down it's average.
|
 |
Sacred 22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1509
|
Posted: June 06 2006 at 12:02 |
Easy Livin wrote:
There are once again too many 5 star ratings being given. Several reviews recently have mentioned significant flaws in albums (A review of "Fragile" comes to mind as one), but given 5 stars anyway. |
Yes, and too many one star ratings for the opposite extreme. Favoritism is subjective and really should not enter into a review. However, things being what they are, this tends to happen all too often.
|
 |
Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
|
Posted: June 06 2006 at 11:31 |
There are once again too many 5 star ratings being given. Several reviews recently have mentioned significant flaws in albums (A review of "Fragile" comes to mind as one), but given 5 stars anyway.
|
 |
crimson thing
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 28 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 848
|
Posted: June 06 2006 at 09:58 |
Surely subjectivity is what our reviews are all about?
If we were in search of objectivity, we'd get the opinion of Professor Drizabone from the University of Removing All Emotional Reaction From Music?
He (surely a "he") would be able to tell us which of our favourites were technically excellent, and which incompetent.
Although I already know that I can buy technically near-perfect music in the form of Bach or Mozart - but I don't; I still prefer some screechy old rocker.
|
"Every man over forty is a scoundrel." GBS
|
 |
Joolz
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 24 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1377
|
Posted: June 06 2006 at 09:00 |
Ghandi 2 wrote:
Now there are some cases where one can recognize that the music is good, even if one does not particularly care for it, such as many people with Gentle Giant. In that case, then a higher rating is in order. Really though, the rating is not important; what the person actually says about the album is far more important.
I think that person genuinely thinks that TFTO is a bad album, and just because many other people think it's a masterpiece doesn't mean that he should give it a good review. Although one star for Tales is perhaps a bit too harsh, even though I don't care for it. |
I don't care for it either, but there is no way I would give it only 1 star. Staying subjective is the problem for many people. I suspect also there is an age issue too - older people tend to be less 'extreme' while younger persons see the world much more in black and white - you know "I don't like it much but ..." becomes "I hate it". Big generalisation of course ....
Edited by Joolz - June 06 2006 at 09:01
|
 |
Ghandi 2
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1494
|
Posted: June 05 2006 at 15:04 |
chopper wrote:
I'm not sure. You seem to be saying that everyone should rate CTTE (for example) 5 stars because it's a generally recognised classic, regardless of whether you like it or not. To take your truck analogy, a truck's qualities are more objective than an album's (speed, mpg etc etc).
|
Which I disagree with entirely; others' opinions have nothing to do with it. If somebody thinks it's a bad album then they should, nay, they must give it a bad review, and explain their reasons why. I can't understand it when people say "Yeah, I don't like ITCOTCK, but I have it 5 stars anyway because it's important and influential." Who cares? It's YOUR review, and what YOU think of it and YOUR rating should not be influenced by what other people think.
Now there are some cases where one can recognize that the music is good, even if one does not particularly care for it, such as many people with Gentle Giant. In that case, then a higher rating is in order. Really though, the rating is not important; what the person actually says about the album is far more important.
I think that person genuinely thinks that TFTO is a bad album, and just because many other people think it's a masterpiece doesn't mean that he should give it a good review. Although one star for Tales is perhaps a bit too harsh, even though I don't care for it.
Edited by Ghandi 2 - June 05 2006 at 15:05
|
 |
chopper
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20035
|
Posted: June 05 2006 at 14:04 |
Sacred 22 wrote:
chopper wrote:
I see absolutely no reason why someone shouldn't give TAAW 5 stars and TFTO 1 star, providing it's done honestly and the person explains their reasons behing the ratings. Perhaps the person concerned just doesn't like 20 minute epics.
If the ratings are genuine, then they prove the point I was trying to make in my ill-fated "Steve Howe ruined Yes" thread - that there are people who prefer the Peter Banks Yes to the Steve Howe Yes. |
I remember the Steve Howe thread and it did loose focus and get carried away and as for the difference in scores here between the case in point (TAAW vs TFTO). I agree that preferences should be pointed out and expanded on, for example if you don't like twenty minute epics, then you can say that. To score a work so low because of your own tastes as opposed to actual talent is just plain wrong. I don't care who's work it is. Many people have trouble getting thier head around Gentle Giant for example, but this by no means, means that the work is inferior. All I ask is that people remain as objective as possible when reviewing any work.
Here is a pretty good analogy. You may like a particular car and you may not like trucks. Does that mean that all trucks are to be rated low and the car you like rated high? No, it just means you don't like trucks and you can say that, but in no way should that be indicative of the trucks actual qualities in your review. |
I'm not sure. You seem to be saying that everyone should rate CTTE (for example) 5 stars because it's a generally recognised classic, regardless of whether you like it or not. To take your truck analogy, a truck's qualities are more objective than an album's (speed, mpg etc etc).
|
 |
Chicapah
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 14 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8238
|
Posted: June 05 2006 at 12:25 |
As long as the reviewer can justify their opinions in a consise and intelligent manner I don't have a problem with someone not liking one of my favorite albums. At that point it's just a matter of personal preference. What I can't stand is someone bashing an album for no other literate reason other than "Whoa, dude, like they suck!!..."
|
"Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain
|
 |
thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
|
Posted: June 05 2006 at 12:11 |
All reviews are subjective. What can you do but state your opinion of
an album? If you don't like something, you should give it a bad review
regardless of how other people rate it.
|
|
 |
Sacred 22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1509
|
Posted: June 05 2006 at 12:08 |
chopper wrote:
I see absolutely no reason why someone shouldn't give TAAW 5 stars and TFTO 1 star, providing it's done honestly and the person explains their reasons behing the ratings. Perhaps the person concerned just doesn't like 20 minute epics.
If the ratings are genuine, then they prove the point I was trying to make in my ill-fated "Steve Howe ruined Yes" thread - that there are people who prefer the Peter Banks Yes to the Steve Howe Yes. |
I remember the Steve Howe thread and it did loose focus and get carried away and as for the difference in scores here between the case in point (TAAW vs TFTO). I agree that preferences should be pointed out and expanded on, for example if you don't like twenty minute epics, then you can say that. To score a work so low because of your own tastes as opposed to actual talent is just plain wrong. I don't care who's work it is. Many people have trouble getting thier head around Gentle Giant for example, but this by no means, means that the work is inferior. All I ask is that people remain as objective as possible when reviewing any work.
Here is a pretty good analogy. You may like a particular car and you may not like trucks. Does that mean that all trucks are to be rated low and the car you like rated high? No, it just means you don't like trucks and you can say that, but in no way should that be indicative of the trucks actual qualities in your review.
|
 |
sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
|
Posted: June 05 2006 at 08:49 |
Everyone has a right to express their opinion. However if you scan through the reviews and see who rightes them, you will find a) who's tastes matches your own, therefore makeing them a decent source of information on albums to you and b) that some people here write reviews beter than others (and I'm not talking about just Prog Reviewers here). Its all about finding who's opinions you agree with and who's writing style's you like.
|
Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
|
 |
chopper
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20035
|
Posted: June 05 2006 at 07:40 |
I see absolutely no reason why someone shouldn't give TAAW 5 stars and TFTO 1 star, providing it's done honestly and the person explains their reasons behing the ratings. Perhaps the person concerned just doesn't like 20 minute epics.
If the ratings are genuine, then they prove the point I was trying to make in my ill-fated "Steve Howe ruined Yes" thread - that there are people who prefer the Peter Banks Yes to the Steve Howe Yes.
|
 |
Sacred 22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1509
|
Posted: June 05 2006 at 06:09 |
Man Made God wrote:
I think you might have a point here, allthough it will always be about personal taste, which is a hard thing to discuss. And I also think it's something which will occur at a site like PA, with everybody giving their personal opinion about an album, even if their review/writing-skills speak for themselves, and they actually shouldn't write reviews.
|
Exactly 
|
 |
Man Made God
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 21 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 380
|
Posted: June 05 2006 at 03:50 |
I think you might have a point here, allthough it will always be about personal taste, which is a hard thing to discuss.
And I also think it's something which will occur at a site like PA,
with everybody giving their personal opinion about an album, even if
their review/writing-skills speak for themselves, and they actually
shouldn't write reviews.
|
Focus on the music... Focus!
|
 |
Sacred 22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1509
|
Posted: June 05 2006 at 02:58 |
I was scanning the reviews here and I have come to the conclusion that paying attention to how albums stack up at this web site is a bit misleading. For example, one reviewer rated Yes's Time and Word at five stars while rating TFTO at one star. I'm sorry, but this reviewer is letting his or her personal taste dictate in a very extreme way and as a result misguiding people who read the reviews. This is but one example of many. I know we all have our own tastes etc, but come on, good work must be recognized for what it is. Personally, if you don't have anything good to say about something or the opposite extreme of over praise, then chances are you are being too subjective and thus misleading people who might otherwise be interested in that work.
Your comments are most welcome.
|
 |
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.