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*frinspar* View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 01 2015 at 18:14
Plumbing is mankind's worst idea ever.

I loathe working with water and pipes. Yet it seems that's what I'm always doing. I'd love to be able to afford to have someone repipe the entire house, but that's not going to happen anytime soon.

The latest battle with that insidious liquid and the channels to bring it into my home started last night when we got back from a walk. I noticed some water trailing along the grout lines in the kitchen tiles. I thought maybe I had dropped a couple of ice cubes I didn't notice and they melted. I wiped it up and went to the store. Came back and there was more water.

Great.

Checked the washing machine and the new water heater, which are on the other side of a wall to the kitchen, and everything looked fine. Then it dawned on me: the damn fridge.

Pulled it out and saw water pooled underneath. Not horrible, it is hopefully just a cracked or burst line feeding the water dispenser and ice maker. I can do that easily enough. It was too late to bother with anything then, so I cut off the water at the valve in the wall and left it for today.

Good news! The valve leaks from the handle when it's shut off. Lovely! That means not only do I have to find and replace a line in the fridge, perhaps even the solenoid, but I have to replace the valve, which is in a tricky spot.
Even better, after an hour of trying to budge the nut, it hasn't moved at all.
Before I head out to get some penetrating spray I figured I'd vent a little somewhere, since I was looking something up anyway.

I've had enough run-ins with it as a homeowner to confidently say, I hate water. LOL It always finds its way to where it wants to go.
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Points: 28057 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2015 at 00:06
Along those same lines, it really does annoy me when I have a task to do, simple or complex, and it all hinges on another person having their sh*t together...and they don't. And they don't follow through for one reason or another. Lately it's been with trying to schedule a tattoo. But, seems like some people just say "f**k it" with common courtesy and the very basics of interacting with human beings and just free-ball it around their stupid sphere of influence.

Also, drunk now so...whatever.
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Points: 16913 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2015 at 00:01
Get some sleep man....I'm about to nod off as well
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Points: 26138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2015 at 23:48
Eventually I got to drop it off - around 11 pm.  It's over now.  All is well.  Ahm ova it.
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Points: 16913 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2015 at 23:44
Wow that sucks Steve, sorry to hear it
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Points: 1563 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2015 at 22:27
^Hope all that nonsense gets sorted out. I've had many experiences with this sort of thing (actually,way too many) due to my extremely high anxiety and OCD symptoms. I totally get it.
There is no dark side in the moon, really... Matter of fact, it's all dark...
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Points: 26138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2015 at 21:06
Well this is annoying.

My wife and daughter went away for the weekend on a Girl Scout camping trip - they are out of cell phone range, but while she was traveling there, while she was still in cell phone range, she called me urgently saying that she forgot our daughter's inhaler.  She asked me to try and reach one of the Girl Scout moms on Facebook (whom I've never met) because she is driving up early tomorrow morning, and maybe I could drop the inhaler off at her house tonight.  That was at about 6:30 pm.   I posted on Facebook with my contact info.  At 9:30 (bear in mind I like to go to bed early) I get a text from her saying she's at a work event, but her husband is home, and I can coordinate with him.  She cc'd him on the message too.  So I texted him.  30 minutes later, nothing.   I was looking forward to relaxing tonight but instead I'm checking my phone ever 5 minutes.
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It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.

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Points: 10970 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2015 at 08:25
^ I've always ignored it ... as though I've never noticed it.
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Points: 872 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2015 at 08:16
my facebook sidebar of what's trending today is all garbage concerning that parade of mediocrity - The Grammys.
Sam Smith and Kayne West and their ilk
 
 
Makes me want to go live on an island with my records
 
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Points: 872 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2015 at 08:40
I would have bought lunch for the guy in the truck
 
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Points: 14693 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2015 at 09:49
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

^ In that case may I add trucks that drive in the fast lane? ... You have trucks driving parallel to each other on the fast and the slow lane. I'm not surprised why we in Reno get heavy clogging every morning of a business day.

One of the major causes of motorway tailbacks imo. One lorry in the inside lane doing 56mph, another lorry in the middle lane trying to overtake it uphill at 56.0001mph so everyone has to go in the outside to get round them. 


Ah yes - Elephant Racing!

You forgot the last one of the unholy trinity - an ancient Volvo with a huge caravan in the outside lane doing 56.00025 mph trying to overtake them both

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2015 at 08:25
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

If he takes that bark and composes it into a raga then that is music, otherwise it is just a dog barking. Using the dog bark in that way would be objet trouvé in the same vein as a found poem or a Picasso's bicycle seat bull. A ceramic urinal is not art until an artist (in that example Marcel Duchamp) designates it as such.

Ilayaraja may hear music in any repetitive sound, but it is not music in its own right, it is just sound.
 
It is a little in between based on his actual application of the thought expressed there. There is a song where he used the sounds of buffalos bellowing, goats bleating and roosters crowing, all as a backdrop to vocals delivered by a singer. Many of these sounds are bent into melodic shape using, I think, synths but some are also used in their pure 'unmusical' form. The point being the momentary interlude of non music is accepted by an audience already prepared by the preceding music as well as visuals of a village simpleton playing with the livestock to accept the intrusion of such sounds. In other words the context decides what the audience perceives as music. This MAY have been what Cage also wanted to establish.
I tend to agree with the notion that context is everything, and that is also related to intent and interpretation. All three are required. Found Art, whether that is visual, sonic or literary only becomes Art with the intention of the Artist to create something from it, the context in which it is placed and the interpretation of that by the observer. For example: "If you tie hair into a ponytail or half ponytail with a hair tie, your braid will be easier to handle and turn out a little neater." is a piece of found text that can be arranged into a found poem by breaking down the phrases in the text into a rhythmic pattern:

If you tie hair 
Into a ponytail 
Or half ponytail 
With a hair tie, 
Your braid will be 
Easier to handle 
And turn out 
A little neater. 

And the Poet can add to, and subtract from, that if they so wish to make it scan or fit a particular meter.

As I sit here typing this I can hear the sound of a buzz-saw, it is an ambient sound that is sonorous but atonal and arrhythmic so it is not musical, however I could record it and make it music through intention. I do not even have to record it - just by reading this text you can imagine the sound that I can hear. If I put that sound into a context, for example by observing that it is being operated in a neighbour's garden as he prepares logs for his log burning stove, then it becomes a soundtrack to an activity that has a contextual meaning that exists without you having to physically observe him sawing through tree branches. From this you can imagine the felling of trees and the stacking of cut logs and that creates a mental picture in each of us of the person using the saw, what the saw could look like and even perhaps the stove they are destined for, and this is without you being able to hear the sound that I can hear. Even if I did not put that sound into a context the listener could have created one of their own based upon the various uses a buzz-saw could be put to, the sound itself is enough to create a context. The interpretation of sound (and thus music) draws upon our memories and knowledge and how we interpret it determines our appreciation of it.

Composers like Ilayaraja, John Cage, Alvin Luicier and Luc Ferrari who maintain that music is all around us are inviting us to hear what they have heard and either put it into a context they have created or create one of our own, and interpret those sounds within that context. This, I would argue, is what all composers do. Whether you regard electro-acoustic music as music is a matter of definition of what you regard as music, however, because of the involvement of a human in creating something from them they are Art. I take the view that ambient environmental sound and animal "song" are not music because they lack intent, context and interpretation, but as soon as a human takes those sounds and uses them they do become music Art.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A few months ago I posted a FB rant on the Quiet Zone carriages on SouthWest Trains - like Iain's comment about Cage's reaction to being in an anechoic chamber (I have experienced that myself, it is disconcerting to say the least) - the concept of a Quiet Zone on a train is self-defeating, they can never be devoid of sound and under those conditions our hearing becomes even more sensitive so that the sound of your fellow passengers breathing becomes a source of annoyance - a Quiet Zone carriage will never be quiet enough.

Great comment and I completely agree.  I do not think Ilayaraja claimed the pure sound of a dog's bark was music (i.e. without being fitted into a composition in some manner) but that he was too parsimonious with words to elaborate on the bald statement.  
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2015 at 07:12
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:



As is the norm, a very informative post. Please don't think I'm splitting hairs but when you say 'harmonious' do you mean 'aesthetically appealing' to a human listener due to the mathematical basis of the intervals deployed? i.e. say 3rds, 5ths and octaves which don't produce any meddlesome waveform distortions. Or, do we consider those relationships that can be defined as 'demonstrable dissonance' based on beat note intervals that don't qualify as 'harmonious' might constitute erm.. lesser music?
'Harmonious' is by definition 'pleasant sounding' so it is what is aesthetically pleasing to our ears, the mathematical relationship is an after-the-event analysis of why that is so. This harmonic relationship was derived empirically by what sounded pleasant and the mathematics are merely the scientific explanation. I have speculated before that this is physiological due to how our ears convert acoustic waves into electrical signals to send to the brain for interpretation. Notes that are not of this simple sequence are not necessarily dissonant, they can be consonant (i.e. imperfect consonance).

With regard to 'demonstrable dissonance', I would not use lesser/greater (or even better/worse) but just different, or if pushed, more complicated. Harmonious is not just two notes played together it also relates to notes played in sequence, so there is a time/memory dimension involved. Dissonance works in this sequential time dimension too, as dissonant tones are a natural consequence of key changes (for example) and it is how this dissonance is resolved over time that affects our aesthetic appreciation of the note sequence or phrase. Dissonance can be used well or it can be used poorly, but used well it adds interest and tension, in this respect dissonance is seen as transitional (towards a resolution).
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Points: 11415 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2015 at 06:18
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

What about bird song? Music or sound?
I would (and have) argue that is it sound but not music, however, some of it is musical, (for example it is hard to call the sound of rooks and crows as musical).

In another thread somewhere I postulated that all human music is based upon a pentatonic scale- that is, music from every culture throughout history shares a common harmonic relationship of tones even though they differ in absolute pitch and tuning. These five notes work well with each other because they are harmonious with each other (i.e., the interaction between them creates beat-notes that are harmonically related) - this relationship is mathematical and predictable (i.e., it is scientific). Our ears interpret this relationship as harmonious and thus musical. A composer and/or musician uses this musical scale to create music, however the scale itself is not music.

Some bird-song also exhibits this pentatonic relationship due to the same "science" - two tones played together create beat-tones that are mathematically related to the original two. (sin(X) + sin (Y) = 2(sin((X+Y)÷2) × cos((X-Y)÷2))). Therefore to our ears this bird-song sounds musical because it is a sequence of harmonic tones that resembles the music created by a musician, but it is not music.


As is the norm, a very informative post. Please don't think I'm splitting hairs but when you say 'harmonious' do you mean 'aesthetically appealing' to a human listener due to the mathematical basis of the intervals deployed? i.e. say 3rds, 5ths and octaves which don't produce any meddlesome waveform distortions. Or, do we consider those relationships that can be defined as 'demonstrable dissonance' based on beat note intervals that don't qualify as 'harmonious' might constitute erm.. lesser music?
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2015 at 05:55
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

What about bird song? Music or sound?
I would (and have) argue that is it sound but not music, however, some of it is musical, (for example it is hard to call the sound of rooks and crows as musical).

In another thread somewhere I postulated that all human music is based upon a pentatonic scale- that is, music from every culture throughout history shares a common harmonic relationship of tones even though they differ in absolute pitch and tuning. These five notes work well with each other because they are harmonious with each other (i.e., the interaction between them creates beat-notes that are harmonically related) - this relationship is mathematical and predictable (i.e., it is scientific). Our ears interpret this relationship as harmonious and thus musical. A composer and/or musician uses this musical scale to create music, however the scale itself is not music.

Some bird-song also exhibits this pentatonic relationship due to the same "science" - two tones played together create beat-tones that are mathematically related to the original two. (sin(X) + sin (Y) = 2(sin((X+Y)÷2) × cos((X-Y)÷2))). Therefore to our ears this bird-song sounds musical because it is a sequence of harmonic tones that resembles the music created by a musician, but it is not music.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2015 at 05:17
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

If he takes that bark and composes it into a raga then that is music, otherwise it is just a dog barking. Using the dog bark in that way would be objet trouvé in the same vein as a found poem or a Picasso's bicycle seat bull. A ceramic urinal is not art until an artist (in that example Marcel Duchamp) designates it as such.

Ilayaraja may hear music in any repetitive sound, but it is not music in its own right, it is just sound.
 
It is a little in between based on his actual application of the thought expressed there. There is a song where he used the sounds of buffalos bellowing, goats bleating and roosters crowing, all as a backdrop to vocals delivered by a singer. Many of these sounds are bent into melodic shape using, I think, synths but some are also used in their pure 'unmusical' form. The point being the momentary interlude of non music is accepted by an audience already prepared by the preceding music as well as visuals of a village simpleton playing with the livestock to accept the intrusion of such sounds. In other words the context decides what the audience perceives as music. This MAY have been what Cage also wanted to establish.
I tend to agree with the notion that context is everything, and that is also related to intent and interpretation. All three are required. Found Art, whether that is visual, sonic or literary only becomes Art with the intention of the Artist to create something from it, the context in which it is placed and the interpretation of that by the observer. For example: "If you tie hair into a ponytail or half ponytail with a hair tie, your braid will be easier to handle and turn out a little neater." is a piece of found text that can be arranged into a found poem by breaking down the phrases in the text into a rhythmic pattern:

If you tie hair 
Into a ponytail 
Or half ponytail 
With a hair tie, 
Your braid will be 
Easier to handle 
And turn out 
A little neater. 

And the Poet can add to, and subtract from, that if they so wish to make it scan or fit a particular meter.

As I sit here typing this I can hear the sound of a buzz-saw, it is an ambient sound that is sonorous but atonal and arrhythmic so it is not musical, however I could record it and make it music through intention. I do not even have to record it - just by reading this text you can imagine the sound that I can hear. If I put that sound into a context, for example by observing that it is being operated in a neighbour's garden as he prepares logs for his log burning stove, then it becomes a soundtrack to an activity that has a contextual meaning that exists without you having to physically observe him sawing through tree branches. From this you can imagine the felling of trees and the stacking of cut logs and that creates a mental picture in each of us of the person using the saw, what the saw could look like and even perhaps the stove they are destined for, and this is without you being able to hear the sound that I can hear. Even if I did not put that sound into a context the listener could have created one of their own based upon the various uses a buzz-saw could be put to, the sound itself is enough to create a context. The interpretation of sound (and thus music) draws upon our memories and knowledge and how we interpret it determines our appreciation of it.

Composers like Ilayaraja, John Cage, Alvin Luicier and Luc Ferrari who maintain that music is all around us are inviting us to hear what they have heard and either put it into a context they have created or create one of our own, and interpret those sounds within that context. This, I would argue, is what all composers do. Whether you regard electro-acoustic music as music is a matter of definition of what you regard as music, however, because of the involvement of a human in creating something from them they are Art. I take the view that ambient environmental sound and animal "song" are not music because they lack intent, context and interpretation, but as soon as a human takes those sounds and uses them they do become music Art.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A few months ago I posted a FB rant on the Quiet Zone carriages on SouthWest Trains - like Iain's comment about Cage's reaction to being in an anechoic chamber (I have experienced that myself, it is disconcerting to say the least) - the concept of a Quiet Zone on a train is self-defeating, they can never be devoid of sound and under those conditions our hearing becomes even more sensitive so that the sound of your fellow passengers breathing becomes a source of annoyance - a Quiet Zone carriage will never be quiet enough.


Edited by Dean - January 30 2015 at 05:30
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Points: 11415 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2015 at 03:51
Originally posted by Lear'sFool Lear'sFool wrote:

John Cage had words to say about the whole "What is music?" question. So he composed 4'33" so that he could have a piece of music that is purely whatever random noise just happens during those four and a half minutes.

Food for thought.


Although that's not implausible, the conventional wisdom about 4'33 is that it was composed purely to illustrate the 'impossibility of silence'. Cage got the idea after he went into an anechoic chamber expecting to hear nothing, but instead he heard the pumping of his own blood and the normally inaudible sound of his internal organs.
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2015 at 01:02
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

If he takes that bark and composes it into a raga then that is music, otherwise it is just a dog barking. Using the dog bark in that way would be objet trouvé in the same vein as a found poem or a Picasso's bicycle seat bull. A ceramic urinal is not art until an artist (in that example Marcel Duchamp) designates it as such.

Ilayaraja may hear music in any repetitive sound, but it is not music in its own right, it is just sound.
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2015 at 22:39
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

If he takes that bark and composes it into a raga then that is music, otherwise it is just a dog barking. Using the dog bark in that way would be objet trouvé in the same vein as a found poem or a Picasso's bicycle seat bull. A ceramic urinal is not art until an artist (in that example Marcel Duchamp) designates it as such.

Ilayaraja may hear music in any repetitive sound, but it is not music in its own right, it is just sound.
 
It is a little in between based on his actual application of the thought expressed there. There is a song where he used the sounds of buffalos bellowing, goats bleating and roosters crowing, all as a backdrop to vocals delivered by a singer. Many of these sounds are bent into melodic shape using, I think, synths but some are also used in their pure 'unmusical' form. The point being the momentary interlude of non music is accepted by an audience already prepared by the preceding music as well as visuals of a village simpleton playing with the livestock to accept the intrusion of such sounds. In other words the context decides what the audience perceives as music. This MAY have been what Cage also wanted to establish.
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Points: 8642 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2015 at 19:08
John Cage had words to say about the whole "What is music?" question. So he composed 4'33" so that he could have a piece of music that is purely whatever random noise just happens during those four and a half minutes.

Food for thought.
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