Concept Albums

Dick Heath wrote: Easy Livin wrote: "SF Sorrow" by THE PRETTY THINGS (Widely acknowledged to be the first concept album) fall into this category. You also have to ask whether Ray Davies might have got in first, if the Kinks hadn't been tied up in legal matters that prevented them releasing anything for about a year.

Coincidentally just found this in the latest Artist Shop newsletter:

Kinks - Village Green Preservation Soc $25.95
2004 reissue of this 1968 jewel loaded with extras in the form of two extra discs featuring original stereo mixes, mono versions, demos, Euro editions, instrumentals BBC sessions and more. 71 tracks in all. Enjoy! Sanctuary

That 1968 date, does suggest the Kinks were close to being the first but denied by legal action preventing them from recording any earlier.

THE MARS VOLTA - DELOUSED IN THE COMATORIUM!!!

also (no particular order)

dream theater - scenes from a memory
pink floyd - the wall
the who - quadrophenia
rick wakeman - the myths and legends of king arthur and the knights of the round table
jeff wayne - war of the worlds
flaming lips - yoshimi battles the pink robots
nine inch nails - the downward spiral
the beatles - sgt peppers lonely hearts club band
the who - tommy
muse - absolution (?)
yes - tales from topographic oceans (?)

asuma wrote: what about only putting in an certain artists 'prog' albums. like only having styx's prog stuff (not sure what it i, but i assume there is some since styx is on PA)

This is an idea that has been brought up before.  However, what is and isn't prog is simply too subjective for it to work.  For example, I consider The Division Bell by Pink Floyd to a be a fantastic prog album.  However, I know for a fact that there are numerous people on here who would strongly disagree with that.

Maani,

I have to say I agree entirely with what you say above about rock operas and concept albums. They are by no means the exclusive domain of prog rock either, although as I think I suggested previously, prog does have a much higher proportion of such albums than any other genre.

I understand what you say about bands who should and should not be here. I think the problem is that we all have our own different ideas about which bands are prog and which are not. There have been plenty of discussion threads on defining prog, and on whether individual bands are or are not prog, and each contains a wide diversity of views.

I find bands like Asia the hardest to come to a considered opinion on. There is no question that their music has little which is truly progressive about it, yet their pedigree, at least on their early albums, entirely to me justifies their inclusion.

I would prefer that the site captures those bands for whom there is a reasonable degree of support, rather than requiring unanimous, or even perhaps majority agreement. The webmasters will always have the final say of course (as they should), and they too will have their own opinions with which we might not always agree. I find it immensley encouraging though, that they are as open to suggestions as they are.

karansaraf wrote: Queensryche - Operation: Mindcrime (I'm surprised not to see this in this thread already!!)

Pretty much true my friend ! And are we getting heretic here forgetting Renaissance's  Scheherezade and Other Stories !

___________

Lunar

1. the mars volta - deloused in the comatorium
2. dream theater - scenes from a memory
3. pink floyd - the wall

Dick/Easy Livin:

Actually, you might be surprised by the answer (at least "according to Maani" ).

There is no question in my mind that Tommy, Quadrophenia, etc. are "concept albums."  One would have to be truly dense not to accept that.  However, this does not automatically make The Who (or other writers of rock operas) "prog."  I believe the two ideas - the creation of a concept album, and a band being "prog" - are, or at least can be, mutually exclusive.

Again, I want to reiterate my belief that a band can (or at least should) only be called "prog" if the majority of its output falls within that genre.  Clearly, The Who does not fit this.  Neither do The Beatles, or other rock bands that have created either a "concept album" or even a couple of "proto-prog" or even "prog" albums.

This is my own personal problem with PA, and I have not been shy about expressing it: I believe there are far too many bands on PA who do not belong if for no other reason that they only put out one or two or three "prog" albums in an oeuvre of ten albums or more.  To my mind, those one or two or three "prog" albums do not support their classification as "prog," and their inclusion on this site.

I continue to support Max and the webmasters re their absolute right to decide who is included and who is not.  But I stand by my comments on this issue.

Peace.

Easy Livin wrote: "SF Sorrow" by THE PRETTY THINGS (Widely acknowledged to be the first concept album) fall into this category.

Point of information.

Pete Townshend has long been on record acknowledging SF Sorrow as (specifically) the first rock opera - (although some sad sap of a reviewer at Amazon.UK thinks Tommy was). But a 'concept album' - hence my original query at the start of this thread? And of course the Pretty Things  were/are not archetypal prog rockers; originally in direct competition to the Rolling Stones, jumped on the psychedelic band wagon releasing SF Sorrow  producing an important  gem (innovative enough to  prove impossible to play completely live then, forcing the first use of taped recordings to be mixed into live performance), then they went straight to rock (Parachute, one of the first Harvest Records releases, has some really great early British rock tunes)

In many respects the SF Sorrow record being the first rock opera,  comes down to EMI backing out of a project for an earlier rock opera (written by Mark Weiss?????????) which involved members of Tomorrow  - Keith West having a hit single, and Steve Howe in there somewhere. EMI released a couple of singles from it, Excerpts From A Teenage Opera and Grocer Jack - which Private Eye than paradied/corrupted into Grocer Heath for satirical ends.  I guess the sales of the second single didn't inspire EMI to invest in releasing the full LP.  RPM Records eventually released it on CD in the early 90's.

You also have to ask whether Ray Davies might have got in first, if the Kinks hadn't been tied up in legal matters that prevented them releasing anything for about a year.

Back in 67 to 69, concept albums were few and far apart, Sgt Pepper and Moody Blues' Days Of Future Past being the most obvious - but memory suggests The Electric Prunes Mass might have been tagged in that way. However, the liner notes which accompanied the first CD issue of Sgt Pepper, includes an alternative tracking list order which had been considered, but eventually dropped in favour of what was released. This  suggests that if track order was flexible, then the variable song order/coherency indicates less of a continual concept with the  telling of a story set to music. Instead you have an LP bookended approximately  by the Sgt Pepper songs, while Day In A Life is a post script. With reports of Lennon and McCartney writing songs independently of each other for this project, I wonder if any concept having related songs  was ever considered.

'Tales from Topographic Oceans' is clearly a concept-album, and there's lots of musical motifs shared by two of the suites. The passage after the intro to track 1 is the same than the intro to suite 4, for example.

There are those concept-albums that are not centered on one subject (a king's wives or pictures by one painter) or a storyline (The Wall, Subterranea, The Lamb), but in a flow of emotions: that's the case for Fates Warning's extraordinary "A Pleasant Shade of Grey" (mid-life crisis), and also for Pain of Salvation's "One Hour by the Concrete Lake" (urban pollution and cancer).

Arena's "The Visitor" is a mixture of storyline and flow of emotions. Each song in IQ's "Ever" is based upon the emotions that come before and/or during and/or after mourning a relative's or close friend's death.

The so-called  "concept" of DSOTM is not madness but simply  "Life". "Money", "Great Gig.." etc., they are all linked by their clear and unambiguous "theme" which is the big and inevitable issues common to us all.

Does this mean any Westlife album is a concept album simply because all of the songs deal with chocolate box style love? I think not.

Maani, I thought your definition was too narrow, but on reflection I can see your point. You have to draw the line somewhere.