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MarkCsigs 
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 07 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 83
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 Topic: Kate Bush
Posted: November 20 2005 at 15:50 |
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I don't hear the pop elements in her music one bit. I know lots
of people who like pop ... many of them love Peter Gabriel (and Collins
and later Genesis of course) or the Moody Blues, Styx, Kansas or even
dig some of the music from Yes like "Your Move" and "Wondrous Stories"
... and not one of them can stand Kate Bush.
I just don't see a connection to pop, whatsoever.
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I repeat myself when under stress.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 27956
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Posted: November 20 2005 at 15:44 |
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To be honest although I'm a big Kate Bush fan it never really ocurred to me that she was prog rock.But she does show prog sensablities in many aspects of her music with grandiose symphonic arrangements,experimental ideas and excellent use of electronic instrumentation.However she is lacking one vital ingredient :- ROCK.Its easliy forgotten that progressive rock is a sub genre of ROCK MUSIC and not a self standing genre.Kate is in truth high quality pop music,just like The Beatles and The Beach Boys.
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MarkCsigs
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Joined: January 07 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 83
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Posted: November 20 2005 at 15:15 |
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Frankly, to me it's so blatantly obvious that Kate Bush is progressive
that it makes me wonder what those of you say she isn't are talking
about, or if you're even reading the other responses in the
thread. There hasn't been anyone yet to offer one reason why she
wouldn't be prog other than "it's obvious" or "she's crap".
I listed a detailed list of why I think her work is progressive, and
others have cited some great, specific examples in her music. I'd
like someone to explain to me why they think she's not.
Edited by MarkCsigs
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I repeat myself when under stress.
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chopper
Special Collaborator
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Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20029
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Posted: November 20 2005 at 15:08 |
 dream_orchestra wrote:
To blacksword.............Eric Clapton is a very
talented guitarist and composer, but in my opinion a lot of his stuff
is crap....my opinion, ditto Kate Bush. If Kate Bush is prog, the
stylophone is a heavy metal instrument.............she is blatantly pop
art, not prog, and no shagging anyone with prog inclinations does not
make you prog related. |
What's to stop a heavy metal band using a stylophone? Pop art? I
thought she was a musician, and she did not "shag" Peter Gabriel (I
assume that's who you are referring to).
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horza
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 31 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2530
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Posted: November 18 2005 at 18:37 |
Listen to Fool's Overture by Supertramp and tell me THAT aint prog 
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Originally posted by darkshade:
Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.
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Posted: November 18 2005 at 18:23 |
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To blacksword.............Eric Clapton is a very talented guitarist and composer, but in my opinion a lot of his stuff is crap....my opinion, ditto Kate Bush. If Kate Bush is prog, the stylophone is a heavy metal instrument.............she is blatantly pop art, not prog, and no shagging anyone with prog inclinations does not make you prog related.
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chopper
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Joined: July 13 2005
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Posted: November 18 2005 at 06:36 |
Blacksword wrote:
chopper wrote:
Not easy to classify Ms Bush. Personally I'm not too worried as long as she's here. She doesn't easily fit in any other categories, so prog-related is as good as any.
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Yep I'm glad she's here too, and to be honest it's because she is not easily categorised, pigeon holed and labelled that she is indeed PROG, or at least prog related..
She is far more deserving of a place in the archives than Asia or Supertramp as far as I'm concerned.
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I'm in agreement with you on Supertramp. Can't comment on Asia though as I don't know their stuff.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: November 18 2005 at 02:58 |
chopper wrote:
Not easy to classify Ms Bush. Personally I'm not too worried as long as she's here. She doesn't easily fit in any other categories, so prog-related is as good as any.
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Yep I'm glad she's here too, and to be honest it's because she is not easily categorised, pigeon holed and labelled that she is indeed PROG, or at least prog related..
She is far more deserving of a place in the archives than Asia or Supertramp as far as I'm concerned.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: November 18 2005 at 02:55 |
dream_orchestra wrote:
Where will the madness end?....how many more non-prog people are gonna be allowed into the progarchives, i despair nearly everyday at the inclusion of some groups or artists on claims, that, are at best wooly, and at worst not even a sniff of prog. Next Sally Oldfield!!!!!!!!!.....how about Vera Lynn, the prog sweetheart of the second world war.
Roy Wood uses a wide variety of instruments, but i don't see him mentioned as prog.
Kate Bush is pop, pure and simple, and sometimes really crap.
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Really crap???...You're entitled to your opinion, I suppose..  Even if you dont like her songs it's a strange appraisal to make of someone who is quite obviously very talented..
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
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Points: 89372
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Posted: November 18 2005 at 02:14 |
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In that case, Sam Brown can be included. I heard an old album of
hers the other day and it had prog elements... She isn't
primarily a prog artist though, so I don't think she should be included.
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Dragon Phoenix
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 31 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 1475
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Posted: November 18 2005 at 02:03 |
dream_orchestra wrote:
Where will the madness end?....how many
more non-prog people are gonna be allowed into the progarchives, i
despair nearly everyday at the inclusion of some groups or artists on
claims, that, are at best wooly, and at worst not even a sniff of
prog. Next Sally Oldfield!!!!!!!!!.....how about Vera Lynn, the prog
sweetheart of the second world war.
Roy Wood uses a wide variety of instruments, but i don't see him mentioned as prog.
Kate Bush is pop, pure and simple, and sometimes really crap. |
disagree!!!!!!
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Blog this:
http://artrock2006.blogspot.com
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Bj-1
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Joined: June 04 2005
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Posted: November 17 2005 at 18:03 |
dream_orchestra wrote:
Where will the madness end?....how many more non-prog people are gonna be allowed into the progarchives, i despair nearly everyday at the inclusion of some groups or artists on claims, that, are at best wooly, and at worst not even a sniff of prog. Next Sally Oldfield!!!!!!!!!.....how about Vera Lynn, the prog sweetheart of the second world war.
Roy Wood uses a wide variety of instruments, but i don't see him mentioned as prog.
Kate Bush is pop, pure and simple, and sometimes really crap.
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Agree!!!!!
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RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!
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Guests
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Posted: November 17 2005 at 17:50 |
Where will the madness end?....how many more non-prog people are gonna be allowed into the progarchives, i despair nearly everyday at the inclusion of some groups or artists on claims, that, are at best wooly, and at worst not even a sniff of prog. Next Sally Oldfield!!!!!!!!!.....how about Vera Lynn, the prog sweetheart of the second world war.
Roy Wood uses a wide variety of instruments, but i don't see him mentioned as prog.
Kate Bush is pop, pure and simple, and sometimes really crap.
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lucas
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Joined: February 06 2004
Location: France
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Posted: November 16 2005 at 23:31 |
greenback wrote:
kate bush is now here, and the next one will be sally oldfield |
It's very strange that she isn't there yet, as is the absence of Gordon Giltrap from this site.  'Water bearer' is a true masterpiece, on which Sally follows the steps of her brother by using a wide variety of instruments. The follow-up is also brilliant. Unfortunately, the quality of the next albums is more debatable.
I am happy to see that after many requires from members of the forum, the gates of Progarchives eventually opened to Kate Bush. After all, it's a prog site (babyblaue prog reviews, a german site devoted to progressive musics) that gave me the wish to discover more than the big hit "babooshka" which I disliked at the time.
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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Rust
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 14 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 1148
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Posted: November 16 2005 at 22:42 |
I preety sure I just read this whole thread so far only to realise this is a preety pointless thread, for example,
first guy: " What is Kate Bush"
second guy: "she is prog related"
first guy: "Ok"
second guy: " ya, ok"
ect, ect, ect...
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We got to pump the stuff to make us tough
from the heart
Its astart
What we need is awareness we cant get careless
Mental self defensive fitness
Make everybody see in order to fight the powers that be
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greenback
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Posted: November 16 2005 at 22:20 |
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kate bush is now here, and the next one will be sally oldfield
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[HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!>
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MarkCsigs
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 07 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 83
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Posted: November 16 2005 at 21:22 |
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Yes, Kate Bush is prog. In fact, the only potential complaint
here is that she's being listed as ONLY prog related. Let's look
at this web site's definition of "common elements of progressive rock"
1. Long compositions, sometimes running over 20 minutes, with intricate
melodies and harmonies that require repeated listening to grasp.
Long compositions? No. Although the rest of the description describes her music exactly.
2.
Lyrics that convey intricate and sometimes impenetrable narratives,
covering such themes as science fiction, fantasy, history, religion,
war, love, and madness.
Absolutely Yes.
3.
Concept albums, in which a theme or storyline is explored throughout an entire album in a manner similar to a film or a play.
Hounds of Love. Yes.
4.
Unusual vocal styles and use of multi-part vocal harmonies.
Unarguably, Yes.
5. Prominent use of electronic instrumentation — particularly keyboard
instruments such as the organ, piano, Mellotron, and Moog synthesizer,
in addition to the usual rock combination of electric guitar, bass and
drums.
Again, Yes.
6.
Use of unusual time signatures, scales, or tunings.
Absolutely, Yes.
7.
Inclusion of classical pieces on albums.
No. But then again, outside of ELP I can't think of any Prog act that did this more than even once.
8.
An aesthetic linking the music with visual art
While not as much of a 'slam dunk' as some of the other categories, I would still say Yes, and point to her first four albums ... in particular, Never Forever and The Kick Inside.
That's six out of the eight categories from this site. If you
want to argue against me on points 3 and 8 ... well, that's still 4 out
of 8 and even the most ardent detractor has to admit that's enough for
"Prog Related".
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I repeat myself when under stress.
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Atkingani
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Joined: October 21 2005
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Posted: November 16 2005 at 21:10 |
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People told me that she campaigns for Genesis be awarded The Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame... and yes, she is Prog, related or art or whatever.
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Guigo
~~~~~~
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horza
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 31 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2530
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Posted: November 16 2005 at 19:13 |
Progish?? Hmmmm i'd say more progish-related 
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Originally posted by darkshade:
Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.
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jojim
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 27 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 155
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Posted: November 16 2005 at 18:05 |
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Kate Bush is a dream - of a woman and a musician. Nobody of us ever met
her - only her music. And for me she is sexy (for example: red shoes
"Solomon ...") and does what she wants to do - and not the producer of
the label. That's a bit what I feel about Prog. Of course she has also
musical patterns that relate to Prog. But it's not the same like for
instance GENESIS. Kate Bush is following the "song" structure - more or
less.
Prog is not performing a rigid "song" structure. At least not all the time.
And what makes her "progish" is the fact that nealy nobody of my friends and coworkers like her. She is not commercial enough.
Just thoughts.
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YES - Close to the edge / UK - UK / GENESIS - The lamb lies down / KING CRIMSON - Discipline / MIKE OLDFIELD - Tubular bells / JETHRO TULL - Aqualung / GENTLE GIANT - Three friends / TMO - IMF
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Kate Bush
