Bad music is a req for good music

maidenrulez wrote: Well if you have taken the I get up, i get down part out of close to the edge and made a 3-4 minute song just about that it would have sounded quite weak...by the means that this riff aint strong enough to make up a song on its own...but as i said i defiently dont think this should have been taken out of the song...it is this part that makes the song a masterpiece and as i already have said it gives the song a contrast and serves as a teasing part of the song but i repeat it is NOT STRONG ENOUGH to make a song on its own...

Agreed.  I Get Up I Get Down would not be a great song without Total Mass Retain, etc.  But Close to the Edge would not be a great song without I Get Up I Get Down.  Camel's Lady Fantasy has a similar structure, I think.

sleeper wrote: Ty1020 wrote: I do see what you mean though, but I think what you're really talking about is just variety in music in general. We need softer, quieter parts to balance out heavier, louder parts, but it has nothing to do with how interesting the music is - it's just a matter of simple variety. If I Get Up, I Get Down wasn't in Close to the Edge, the song would be very boring because without the quiet interlude in the middle, it'd probably get really monotonous. You could take that further and aply it to music in general, Like we need the likes of the talantles McFly, for example, to show us just ho great prog is.

Yes i spend my time watching the top 20's singles in norway...after 2 hours of that putting on yes, genesis or the residents feel so much better

Well if you have taken the I get up, i get down part out of close to the edge and made a 3-4 minute song just about that it would have sounded quite weak...by the means that this riff aint strong enough to make up a song on its own...but as i said i defiently dont think this should have been taken out of the song...it is this part that makes the song a masterpiece and as i already have said it gives the song a contrast and serves as a teasing part of the song but i repeat it is NOT STRONG ENOUGH to make a song on its own...

And as usual you exaggerate the amount of Noise that is on the mars volta cd the "noise" bits are

The last 3 minutes of Cygnus Vismund Cygnus

The last 2 minutes of The Widow

The first 4 minutes of Miranda that ghost aint holy anymore...

A total of 9 minutes on a cd that is almost 79 minutes does not bother me...

Tholomyes wrote: maidenrulez wrote: sleeper wrote: I havent heard Frances The Mute but I find the middle of Cicatrize esp VERY boring, an example of how not to do it Cicatriz ESP is great and one of my favorite songs...when the drums and guitars hits in it just great...afterall the section only lasts for 3 minutes...   That part of Cicatriz ESP sounds very similar to the Echoes' middle part too.

Um....I dont really see the comparison to Echoes as there is a melody that runs throughout but there isnt one in the middle section of cicatrize and this is the sole reason that i dont like it.

Biggles wrote: Oh, and while I see what you mean, I certainly wouldn't call it "bad" music, as if something is bad it means that it lacks compositional skill, while a band who can use contrast to really bring out the climax of a song would have great compositional skill. In every form of art, whether it be literature, music, or painting, there's always one or two vivid, foregrounded images, and then there are other images that aren't as noticeable but serve to bring out the foreground. If you had nothing other than foregrounded images, then as a result nothing would be foregrounded at all. It's how the artist uses this concept of foreground and background that determines how good he or she is, and you can see this with all the great composers. Just because a section of a piece isn't less emphasized doesn't mean it's "bad;" if it serves a purpose effectively, then it's actually very good.

Yes i think i have elaborated that i did not think the music was bad...but thread titles are so hard to get accurate when they are so short

Oh, and while I see what you mean, I certainly wouldn't call it "bad" music, as if something is bad it means that it lacks compositional skill, while a band who can use contrast to really bring out the climax of a song would have great compositional skill. In every form of art, whether it be literature, music, or painting, there's always one or two vivid, foregrounded images, and then there are other images that aren't as noticeable but serve to bring out the foreground. If you had nothing other than foregrounded images, then as a result nothing would be foregrounded at all.

It's how the artist uses this concept of foreground and background that determines how good he or she is, and you can see this with all the great composers. Just because a section of a piece isn't less emphasized doesn't mean it's "bad;" if it serves a purpose effectively, then it's actually very good.

goose wrote: You need bits that don't engage you so strongly to enhance the bits that do. An incredible example is KC's Starless. I know you don't like the middle section, but I do and I think the recap of the tune would be so much less dramatic if a couple of minutes were shaved from the weird time signature bit.

It kinda reminds me of the buildup in Cygnus Vismund Cygnus by TMV...however i find this guitar riff far to annoying than to listen to it for another 5 minutes...i think TMV has more dynamic and power in their build-ups and such and yes i know that this part should defiently be there although i think it sounds really awfull and the part after the buildup is kinda messy

But then again i am a real big mars volta fan...so dont listen to me

sleeper wrote: I havent heard Frances The Mute but I find the middle of Cicatrize esp VERY boring, an example of how not to do it

Cicatriz ESP is great and one of my favorite songs...when the drums and guitars hits in it just great...afterall the section only lasts for 3 minutes...