Improving our awareness of 'missing artists' on PA

My two cents on the discussion, first - since it was mentioned - about the tagging system at AP:

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - 59 minutes ago at 14:07

mathman0806 wrote: ^I think there are many reasons why audience is diminishing at PA, but the use of subcategories would not be at the top of my list. I would be curious as to whether there is greater diminishing in terms of participation versus site use as a database. Though that is a good question of who the target audience is. If it wants to continue, then it has to bringe in younger groups of people. Not sure any cosmetic changes will do that. When I consider sites with forums of any topic, not just music, the forum traffic has diminished all round. While I think prog music production is doing well, I am not so sure about the audience.

mathman0806 wrote: lazland wrote: I have some sympathy with your library analogy, but I would say this in response. There are a lot of people who like "Historical Romance". They will look up books on that topic. They do not, though, need: 1. Georgian historical romance 2. The way Romans shagged themselves silly in a fictional sense romance 3. Victorian historical romance 4. Neo historical romance 5. Eclectic historical romance 6. post modern extreme technical historical romance And etc. ad infinitum, ad nauseum.  That's a good analogy to make your point. But, I think it depends on the audience. When you go to general public library, there's a relatively small section on mathematics often grouped with science. However, you go to Mathematics Library at a top research university with a PhD program in mathematics and you'll all sorts of subcategories you wouldn't even think of.

mathman0806 wrote: I think if there are fewer subgenres (for the people who want fewer subgenres), then there would be fewer artists on PA. There's some sense of puritanical cleansing that I get when I hear about getting rid of subgenres as it becomes questioned as to whether it is actually prog. As an example, post rock/math rock. Two types of music I enjoy but I get the arguments on whether they are a subcategories of prog. I also think it should be split because post/math isn't one genre.

Logan wrote: Often the people who do complain about such things too, in my experience at PA, are those who are not even doing the work. Obviously others are working to improve the site and I think there are many ways to improve efficiency and the site's valuableness. Helps if the webmaster is on board, supportive and guiding...

I think that way rateyourmusic has genres is excellent (being able to search using multiple tags and tagging individual albums), and I'm confident that lots of people care about it. Lots of people care about having subcategories in the arts and sciences, in department stores etc.

I have seem some say that all subgenres should be removed at PA, but I know if I go to a library I don't want to see one big section that says books. Or a video store back in the day with one big section of "videos" or a record store with just a section of "records". Maybe one big section whichi includes all media under "stuff" so CDs, record, DVDs, cassettes eight tracks etc. are all together. An archives is more useful to search when it is catalogued and organised.

Often the people who do complain about such things too, in my experience at PA, are those who are not even doing the work. Obviously others are working to improve the site and I think there are many ways to improve efficiency and the site's valuableness. Helps if the webmaster is on board, supportive and guiding...

Edited by Logan - 2 hours 30 minutes ago at 12:36

I think "genre splitting" is done as a means to compensate for not having a tagging system. If you take that perspective of tagging music, that is what most people like. Generally, I like having categories, subcategories, overlapping categorie, and such as a means to find and look for music I might like.

There are different ways to go about it. There was the music genome project, which I think AllMusic initially used. Those tags can then be used to suggest other music. MIike does something like that now at Awesome Prog.

This could also be a matter of semantics. Rather than saying these are "genres" of prog, we are really using this as labeling by groups of characteristics. It's certainly imperfect. There are many ways to group artists.

Okay, one more! Genre splitting is NOT very popular. It is on Prog Archives, but absolutely nowhere else at all, with the possible exception of the hard work Mike does on Awesome. In the real world, not that many give a toss, really. I know you don't like me saying these things, but it is a truism.

Just a not that well trhough-through post (I'm not speaking as a staff member). Really I'm just a forum guy mostly who likes to share and discover music with forum members, and is someone who make some terrible jokes/ absurdities.

I actually would like more categories, or tweaking the "subgenre" names, and ideally album tagging and multi-tagging 9(ut I understand Max saying that the old existing site architecture does not support it, so one would need to rebuild).

I agree that what matters is if those labels can be understood from the definitions. I do think the definitions ideally would be be updated and improved.

Without Max being involved major changes are not as practical, or where they can be made, advisable. This forum can do a lot of what the database does and more (I would like to add some forums if I had Max's blessings) and complement it well.

Personally, I would like to see changes to the admission procedures, collab structures and expectations for Suggest New Bands threads. We did become quite Draconain with expectations when the suggestions were being overwhelmed. We wanted to slow down suggestions and make it more manageable for collabs. Franky, the expectations sometimes that something gets added, and complaints if it doesn't and sometimes if it does, has been very disheartening And it has been more than little annoying that some of those who would complain were not willing to put in effort into helping along the addition. Ideally ALL OF US (at least regulars) at the forum are collaborating and working together.

That thing about being the most comprehensive database goes back to the early days, and it's not really important to me. That was the aim, but we set up ways to limit additions and there is always going to be lots of Prog not on this site and not all team members and people will agree on what can be suitable for the categories. I would like to see systems that involve the general membership more in the evaluation and discussion process.   Maybe a more open process. I would like to more collabs having votes across teams.

I do think a stickied list is a good idea. There used to be a list of accepted and rejected artists.

I have long wanted to make my own site with others help on modern (say 50's up) progressive and art music.