ELP Underrated?

progaardvark wrote: I think Tim Bowness is right when he says Love Beach would have been a better album if the side-long epic was on side 1 and they chose a better album cover. Tim's very insightful in that YT video.

Edited by David_D - October 08 2024 at 05:58

progaardvark wrote: I think Tim Bowness is right when he says Love Beach would have been a better album if the side-long epic was on side 1 and they chose a better album cover. Tim's very insightful in that YT video.

moshkito wrote: richardh wrote: ^yep in 1970-1971 especially and after that Yes and even arguably Focus took it forward. Nowadays the revisionism that as happened with prog history tends to put them down as almost a footnote. Steve Wilson and Tim Bowness got a lot of blow back for this recent video in case you don't know. ... Hi, At least, SW stated that this was UK version and edition, which I can accept and relate. Sadly, from my point of view, it diminishes the ability and quality of the rest of the music in Europe, but I have a feeling that SW and TB were more worried about touching areas that would be much more extensive and not able to discuss them ... the Italian scene, the French scene, and specially the German scene that was much more alive with film, theater and the performance arts. The British scene was much more independent of all the arts, and kinda stood on its own some, it could be said, although the idea of thinking of 2 of Genesis' albums within the fairy tale thing, is bizarre to me, considering the incredible history of folk music in Great Britain. On top of it you had some bands playing material some 400/500 years old in a much more modern format ...  The part I like the most is that SW mentioned some great albums that most of us here don't give a cahoot about, and that was neat ... having grown up with that GB scene and Space Pirate Radio (Guy was almost exclusive on every thing in GB music and probably the most knowledgeable person on it I have ever met!!!) I got to hear a lot of it, and some of those things were very neat and deserve a lot of mentions, but won't get it, because they never really hit the "numbers" that makes fans think that this specific album is the great big cheese now ... something that is really sad in the arts ... the more you listen to and hear, and see (in painting) the less you worry about a favorite and a number 1 ... because there are so many different things and they are all far out, and many of them speak of a time and place, something that a lot of music listed DOES NOT ... though to be fair, they might not have lived within a time of great artistic movements, like the 1960's ... to have a stronger value within their music.  It was special and far out to hear about FAMILY and MAN ... for example, that deserve some appreciation, and TB noted that Roger Chapman was "up there" ... which is something I agree with. MAN, for me, is lovely and their music is in my heart from the first album ... all the way to Deke Leonard's book ... "Man On The Road To Nowhere" ... a very sad book, but incredible in its guts and its courage. I think the bad rap might have come from the fact that they did not exactly kiss up to ELP and probably thought too much about YES, and some on GG and Genesis and JT. SW not enjoying ELP is not a surprise, since SW is NOT about music within a classic sense ... he is a Pop music singer and writer ... there is nothing classical or super special about what he does ... but both him (by himself) and PT did come up with some rather nice things to listen to, but all of them STRICTLY within a rock context. And, I like to think that SW is as funny as a dead cow picture on an album (a la Hipgnosis, or course!). I don't think that SW has enough in the studies of music history to appreciate some of Keith's material as classical done by orchestras, and maybe he is not happy because PT and SW will likely not have the chance to play with an orchestra ... his music is not designed for that. I, also, don't think that trashing the fun stuff in ELP is fair ... a lot of folks liked it, and probably was a nice touch inside an hour of what could be considered heavy music, and intense ... you don't get up and scream rock'n'roll during the toccata in Montreal ... plain and simple, and seeing it within the context of a rock musician that doesn't care for classical music and how the original "progressive" folks all came from classical music ... which speaks more about the levels of appreciation by the universities around the world and their music designs and definitions than ... anything ... and besides, they like the dead composers because they can't argue otherwise! The Daily Doug has done both ELP and SW/PT and there is no doubt what DD thinks about Keith Emerson's composition skills ... his discussions on SW/PT don't even come lose to that classical scrutiny, so SW not liking it and saying that the Piano Concerto is not any good, is ... in my book ... more in bad taste than it is about anything else ... he's sounding like an average internet fan discussing his favorites, not the music itself ... TB, at least mentioned the music details quite often!

richardh wrote: ^yep in 1970-1971 especially and after that Yes and even arguably Focus took it forward. Nowadays the revisionism that as happened with prog history tends to put them down as almost a footnote. Steve Wilson and Tim Bowness got a lot of blow back for this recent video in case you don't know. ...

Edited by David_D - October 05 2024 at 15:01

Starshiper wrote: MortSahlFan wrote: Underrated song "For You" Fantastic tune. The Love Beach album is underrated. According to me. I think the main reason LB is so hated is the awful sleeve design, which is uncannily similar to a disco style from the late 1970s. The story about that album probably would be different if an artist like Roger Dean, Patrick Woodroffe, or Matti Klarwein had illustrated the cover for "Love Beach."

Partly in ELP you had the classic conflict/tension between a composer (Emerson) and a songwriter (Lake). Argent had the same unease between Rod Argent himself (the composer) and Russ Ballard (the songwriter). Both bands put out some terrific albums tho.

When the band name ...Emerson Lake & Palmer began circulating in the early 70s it attracted attention not unlike Crosby, Stills & Nash or whatever bands carried it's reputation on the stake of three last names. So for people who didn't know anything about the band such as Lake being in K.C....Emerson from The Nice...and Palmer from Atomic Rooster ...the three last name routine was the selling point.

Regarding those who followed The Nice...they were waiting for a new band. They were waiting for Emerson to make a move. The first ELP album and Tarkus were magical ..and eventually Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery took the music further.

In the summer of 74' I saw the Welcome Back tour which presented A Quad sound system and in each corner of the stadium were giant speaker cabinets towering up to the ceiling. And so the sound bounced around rotating rapidly between each of the 4 cabinets in the hall. This really brought more people to their shows.

Many years later when I met Greg Lake he was very bitter about ELP and came across condescending or defeating and persistent in saying that Emerson and Palmer were all about ego. He was irritated and negative about the band's history. It was like he was getting a divorce 😃 😀

^Yeah, I remember Guy's show and didn't get back around to editing, but you covered it in much more detail than I could have.

Floydoid wrote: I remember the legendary Radio One DJ John Peel once described ELP 'a waste of talent and electricity'. On a side note he also described the music of Focus as 'rat's pi$$'.