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Why aren't most Zoomers into progressive rock?

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moshkito View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 19 2024 at 07:45
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

When Jethro Tull - Thick As A Brick was released in 1972, a few-minute edited version of it was played on the radio. I did not like this version. In retrospect, I think it represents why I was not into progressive rock at that age. It was hard rock that appealed to me at that time, whereas prog was too folky for me. It wasn't until seven years later that I first listened to the whole album, and was impressed with how much it rocked.
... 
 

Hi,

It wasn't the last of the edited and cut up versions of any material at the time, however that was coming to an end, in 2 ways ... one it killed the "banded" LP given to radio stations (a couple more years) and then it ended up hurting the sales of albums with long cuts.

We had around the house, many of these big time LP's cut up in portions ... they included CTTE, TFTO, APP, TAAB, a couple of Rush things (I don't know Rush intimately!), THE DOORS, FOCUS, and many other albums. The worst, and most offensive of these "banded" pieces of music, was, OF COURSE ... Light My Fire, that the AM radio played and it was less than half its normal length. A DJ in Madison at one time even commented how stupid the organ stuff sounded in the long versions! (Believe it or not, this would sound like some folks here on PA these days ... that love their thrashing and growling, but hate extended string/keyboard material they "don't understand"!).

My take is that Zoomers, or anyone else, hasn't grown up "into music" ... at all ... otherwise the idea that it was progressive, baroque, romantic, whatever "style" would make no difference whatsoever ... but it does show the stuff that so many kids are exposed to ... and its violence to the idea of listening to music, instead of just a bunch of songs!

In my book/bok this is the music companies revenge for losing so many folks to their individual controls, and the fake and weird "numbers" that supposedly show the number 1 (Hello Virgin!!!) , pretty much says that the music companies do have enough control to make some money ... why show the numbers if they were losing? Yeah, I'm sure we get it!

I like to say/think that the state of FM radio in America, corporate owned, is the main problem, because what they play is very limited, and 50 years ago, you KNEW there was music in Detroit, Chicago, West Coast, East Coast and later Pacific NW. Today, it all sounds the same, and you really don't know much about the musicians, where they come from, and if they even are musicians. I don't dislike "rap", but there are many times when I question ... is this music? I'm not sure it is, or should be considered music!



Edited by moshkito - February 21 2024 at 06:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2024 at 02:58
The accessibility of prog varies from listener to listener, so IMO it's not really possible to determine if prog is in fact accessible.

Besides, prog as a genre is really broad so in the enormous ocean of progressive rock releases you can find stuff that's "accessible" to say, someone who isn't a big prog geek... or something that is inaccessible. ―\_(ツ)_/―

I don't like using that term personally because of its vague and highly contextual meaning. I'd rather say that something is "harmonically complex" or "features frequent time signature changes, polyrhythms, counterpoints et al." because that way my description conveys more information.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pistacchioso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2024 at 01:11
Originally posted by STRSHPS STRSHPS wrote:

Originally posted by pistacchioso pistacchioso wrote:

I think the question is more like "Why aren't most people into progressive rock". I cannot think of a single generation that is "into progressive rock". It's a nice genre. Most people tend to consume accessible media: accessible movies attract more people that avant-garde one, accessible books sell more than essays about obscure philosophers of the '700 and so on.
And prog rock is not an accessible music genre.

My friend, I'm just curious. What is your personal definition of "an accessible music genre"? What are you basing this on?


I'm not sure I get your question. You're asking be what's my definition of accessible music because you think PR is accessible and I think not?

Accessible music is the music "that's most easy to listen to" to the most people I'm not sure what to say, really, because I tought this was quite a widespread truth based solely on "facts"? Most people listen to the music that's most "accessible" to them. You take this week's top listened to songs they're all 3 minut pieces with some singer taking the stage, a 4/4 beat and so on. That's what is objectively accessible. There are no 12 minute instrumental pieces with tempo and time signature changes every two bars, with endless solos, a mixture of jazz, folk, rock, classical music.

This is true for basically any week since forever, even when PR was most widespread than its is today. Even when Progressive Rock put out some popular hits like Tubular Bells, when went on air was a 3:15 minute "radio version" made to render "more accessible" a 20 minute piece.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote STRSHPS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2024 at 19:10
Originally posted by pistacchioso pistacchioso wrote:

I think the question is more like "Why aren't most people into progressive rock". I cannot think of a single generation that is "into progressive rock". It's a nice genre. Most people tend to consume accessible media: accessible movies attract more people that avant-garde one, accessible books sell more than essays about obscure philosophers of the '700 and so on.
And prog rock is not an accessible music genre.

My friend, I'm just curious. What is your personal definition of "an accessible music genre"? What are you basing this on?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote STRSHPS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2024 at 19:05
That's just not true. I know many zoomers in my area who are into progressive rock. But the majority seem to reside in forums like Reddit and many others. Some might choose the predictable choice of Pink Floyd, but I know some who are into Zappa, ELP, Gentle Giant, etc. AND I know some who are into both pop hits and prog classics like I am.


Edited by STRSHPS - February 11 2024 at 19:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2024 at 21:12
When Jethro Tull - Thick As A Brick was released in 1972, a few-minute edited version of it was played on the radio. I did not like this version. In retrospect, I think it represents why I was not into progressive rock at that age. It was hard rock that appealed to me at that time, whereas prog was too folky for me. It wasn't until seven years later that I first listened to the whole album, and was impressed with how much it rocked.
 
I need my prog to rock about as much as I need my rock to prog.
 



Edited by I prophesy disaster - February 10 2024 at 21:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pistacchioso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2024 at 16:00
I think the question is more like "Why aren't most people into progressive rock". I cannot think of a single generation that is "into progressive rock". It's a nice genre. Most people tend to consume accessible media: accessible movies attract more people that avant-garde one, accessible books sell more than essays about obscure philosophers of the '700 and so on.
And prog rock is not an accessible music genre.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2024 at 23:09
Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

^Ugh, Dancers
What on earth is wrong with dancers? I would LOVE if black midi brought along the seven dancers(!) in this video along on tour.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Hugh Manatee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2024 at 20:44
Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

^Ugh, Dancers




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hugh Manatee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2024 at 20:34
Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

^While I agree with Steven Wilson, is there really such a thing as 'good music'?

There is music that is technical and original, complex, but is it 'better'? since it's opinionated 

For me "good" music is music that fits (suits) the circumstance, and "bad" music is music that doesn't fit (suit) the circumstance.

Is "The Chicken Dance" bad music? Well it seems to fit in with wedding receptions for the most part.

I wouldn't think that too many people at that same wedding reception would appreciate ""Larks Tongues in Aspic" no matter what part.

Now, if the listener were stoned ...





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Floydoid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2024 at 08:24
Originally posted by Hugh Manatee Hugh Manatee wrote:


4. Peer Influence and Social Dynamics: Musical preferences can be influenced by social interactions and peer groups. Younger individuals tend to develop their musical tastes based on what they are exposed to within their immediate social circles. If progressive rock is not widely appreciated or popular among their peers, it may not gain as much traction or resonance with the younger audience.


Which is sort of how I got into prog, as in high school in the early 70's it was the cool music genre to be into. Initially I found it a bit of a steep learning curve, but once I'd heard 'Meddle' and CTTE, that was it - I was hooked*!

*for life or so it would seem
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2024 at 08:09
Originally posted by Hugh Manatee Hugh Manatee wrote:

OK, so I punched this question into a chatbot and got this response which I think just about covers the question:

What chatbot was that?

I'd say, the explanation given is good, but could be better regarding the ideological aspects.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2024 at 06:20
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Don't worry, some young prog artist/artists will come along and capture the imagination of the Zoomers!  They might even have dancers!  LOL
That's the thing. Plenty have, with no dancers in sight.

I don't know, a contemporary version of "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" replete with dancers might be amazing!   Think of songs like "The Colony of Slippermen!" 

...

HI,

The Internet is helping the "individual" a lot more than it is, let's say, an art scene, which is going to make it difficult to have mixed media things on it, is my take.

I was trying hard, and did succeed with lights and sound when I was directing in theater, to create something new ... with the sounds, and the lights a major part of the atmosphere and the event itself. In one play, the far out lights and colors were reserved for the moments when the "dog" talked to his master. In another play, the music "conducted" the beginning and the ending of the play (Escuriel by Michel de Ghelderode) ... and got the comment by a professor, that he didn't come to the theater to see loud music! 

How times change ... and this was 1980, and he was obviously out of his element ... and not in touch with the arts of the day at all ... he still thought that acting was all TV styled poses for the camera to get the face shot! So, a lot of it has to do with the instructors, and sometimes, this is where I am opposed to the "tenure" thing, since it tends to simply keep the old guard ... doing nothing of worth while artistic work that helps the art form.

The "zoomers" will get into progressive, jazz, or something else ... the moment they get tired of hearing the same growl over and over and over and folks keep keep adding more of them to the top releases. This time, that growl is about the Bible, of course! Tomorrow about __________ !

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MortSahlFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2024 at 04:42
I was born in the 80s, and all I listen to is music before I was born, mostly prog, especially as I get older, but I also like to expand in general just to have a larger palette, as opposed to listening to the same stuff.

I do have younger cousins, and they love early Chicago, Pink Floyd, The Doors, Supertramp, and they play it in their cars with other people, and a mutual friend was asking "Who is THIS?" (Carol of Harvest) and will check it out...

If you take a little bit of time and try to show them some 70s prog that THEY would like, they'll spread it.


Edited by MortSahlFan - January 24 2024 at 04:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2024 at 00:32
Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Don't worry, some young prog artist/artists will come along and capture the imagination of the Zoomers!  They might even have dancers!  LOL
That's the thing. Plenty have, with no dancers in sight.

I don't know, a contemporary version of "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" replete with dancers might be amazing!   Think of songs like "The Colony of Slippermen!" 

I'd like to see Lady Gaga in this version, she is an amazing keyboard player/vocalist!!   She's also a New Yorker! 




Edited by cstack3 - January 24 2024 at 00:49
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Awesoreno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2024 at 23:32
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Don't worry, some young prog artist/artists will come along and capture the imagination of the Zoomers!  They might even have dancers!  LOL
That's the thing. Plenty have, with no dancers in sight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Awesoreno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2024 at 23:30
Originally posted by Cinema Cinema wrote:

I'd venture to say most Gen Z folks have never really heard good music. As Steven Wilson said:

Hear the sound of music drifting in the aisles
Elevator prozac stretching on for miles
The music of the future will not entertain
It's only meant to repress and neutralise your brain
And your venture would be in folly. Plenty of them listen to great music and, shockingly, it's not all prog. Nor is it all Ed Sheeran. It's almost as if music listening trends are not solely (or even mainly) influenced by generation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frets N Worries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2024 at 21:41
^Ugh, Dancers

This is why I'd like to make it my mission to keep up with the 'Music and Musicians' exchange thread, while it's not very popular, aspiring artists do stop by there occasionally (including myself) and ask for thoughts on their work. Encouraging the youth to create music of all kinds is always good, and now it's easier than ever
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2024 at 21:02
Originally posted by Hugh Manatee Hugh Manatee wrote:

OK, so I punched this question into a chatbot and got this response which I think just about covers the question:

"The reasons why certain genres of music, such as progressive rock, may not be as popular among Zoomers or the younger generation can be attributed to several factors:
1. Cultural Shift: Musical preferences often reflect the cultural trends and experiences of a particular time period. Progressive rock emerged primarily in the late 1960s and 1970s, and its complex song structures, lengthy compositions, and instrumental virtuosity were in line with the artistic trends of that era. As cultural tastes and trends have evolved, different genres have gained prominence, which may not align with the characteristics of progressive rock.
2. Accessibility and Exposure: The availability and accessibility of music have expanded with the advent of digital platforms and streaming services. This has led to a wide range of musical choices and increased exposure to various genres. Popularity often builds around music that is easily accessible, heavily promoted, or frequently heard on the radio, which may lead to a larger following for those genres.
3. Evolving Musical Styles: Musical aesthetics and styles have continued to evolve and diversify. Many younger artists may draw inspiration from a wide range of genres but reinterpret them in a contemporary context that resonates more with the current generation's tastes. The focus on concise songs, catchier hooks, and a more instant gratification experience in the digital age might not align with the longer and more intricate compositions commonly found in progressive rock.
4. Peer Influence and Social Dynamics: Musical preferences can be influenced by social interactions and peer groups. Younger individuals tend to develop their musical tastes based on what they are exposed to within their immediate social circles. If progressive rock is not widely appreciated or popular among their peers, it may not gain as much traction or resonance with the younger audience.
It is important to remember that musical preference is highly individual and subjective. While progressive rock may not be as popular among Zoomers or the younger generation as it once was, there are still individuals within that age group who appreciate and enjoy the genre. Taste in music varies greatly among individuals, and it is important to respect and embrace diversity in musical preferences."


This resonates with me as well!   

Let's consider history - how many young folks are into big-band jazz, barbershop quartet, or other passed musical trends that once were huge?   

Prog is no different, and ChatBot pretty much nailed it.  Us old prog-heads sitting around talking about it is like my father's generation talking about their music in World War 2!  

The good news is that I'm seeing more traditional prog instrumentation being used onstage (guitar, bass, drums, keys) by contemporary acts.  Guitar was an endangered species for a while, and synth almost wiped out bass guitar in the 1980s.  

Don't worry, some young prog artist/artists will come along and capture the imagination of the Zoomers!  They might even have dancers!  LOL


Edited by cstack3 - January 23 2024 at 21:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jacob Schoolcraft Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2024 at 15:42
If music is technical/complex for the most part it's solely based on a personal preference. If you like what a specific band and their compositions do for you. They are complex..but perhaps they lift you up and the more you listen to this particular band's music the more you enjoy getting that feeling.

That's a true and meaningful connection between you and the artist. Another Fusion band or Classical Rock band is stylistically based off the same creative composition, but they just don't do it for you.

I have often wondered why that extreme difference is so affective on people. Maybe they're feeling the person's soul through their playing. An artist who composes in several styles may feed off life experiences and the emotion in their playing often evolves from a true experience. Consequently several people in the world feel something from the music and they often find it something difficult to describe in words. This is the kind of affect music can have on humans. A person may wonder why they like a particular band so much and it's more than likely the musician's or writer's soul that they are feeling.

Many outstanding songwriters or composers begin theory in their childhood. Some that are definitely skilled tend to develop theory to a high level and it all becomes second nature....so that when they compose they allow the music to flow through them and not think about the science of music..and thinking about anything at all. Just allowing music to inspire you. You hear chord progressions, melody, harmony, ...you don't actually think about the order of everything. The music controls what you do. As an end result you end up recording a decent piece of music.

On another note...there are people in the music business that try to buy you. They may offer a large sum for a piece you wrote in return for putting their name on the writing credits. Now everyone thinks that they wrote it. Do you see how easy it is to fool people?

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