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Modern prog bands similar to 70s prog?
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omphaloskepsis View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 25 2023 at 03:07
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ I think that whether something sounds "warm" or "cold" is mostly due to subjective factors. If you listened to DSOTM on a tube amp system over and over, in a room with cozy carpets and sofas/armchairs, you might associate it with a warm sound. But if you've only ever listened to the CD version on a digital amp in a "neutral" room, it might come across as quite cold. And both impressions would be "correct".

I like explanations that reference multiple factors.  Closer to reality.  
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Lewian View Drop Down
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I'm not really interested in music that "sounds like earlier music" for the sake of it, but I wasn't quite prepared for how much joy Electric Orange could give this old Can fan.
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^ generally though my listening environment doesnt change that much so it's just a constant. WYWH is very warm to my ears. My ears could be wrong but somehow the lovely glow is just not apparent to me on DSOTM. Parson's built his reputation on DSOTM but to this day I'm still not getting it. Ultimately it is entirely subjective I agree.

Edited by richardh - July 11 2023 at 09:41
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Points: 21180 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2023 at 02:48
^ I think that whether something sounds "warm" or "cold" is mostly due to subjective factors. If you listened to DSOTM on a tube amp system over and over, in a room with cozy carpets and sofas/armchairs, you might associate it with a warm sound. But if you've only ever listened to the CD version on a digital amp in a "neutral" room, it might come across as quite cold. And both impressions would be "correct".
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richardh View Drop Down
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Points: 28029 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2023 at 22:51
Alan Parsons stuff always sounded way too clinical to my ears and that includes DSOTM. I don't associate warmth at all with those. Eddie Offord on the other hand regarding those early ELP and Yes albums is a different story.
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

...
Anyways, going back to what he wrote: He asked for modern recordings that have the same warmth as some of the recordings of the 70s. Apart from that line at the end, he wasn't talking about style at all. I agree that me posting the list of "retro" releases didn't address that properly. To fix that I have added new tags: "Warm Production", "Cold Production". No releases are tagged yet, but I think that this is what he asked for, and indeed, creating a chart with these releases would be something that more people might find useful.
...

Hi,

I'm pretty sure that if "digital" recordings were not done DIRECTLY to a box, or computer or DAW, that it would also have some warmth ... if you recorded a guitar with all amps, inside a room, digitally, it would likely have a much warmer sound than the clinical sound it would get by going directly to the board and computer.

Thus, "warm", and "cold" simply refer to how it was recorded. If all you did or put it together in the bedroom, it will always sound (mostly) cold, unless the person doing it is a specialist in this area of sound, and is capable of manipulating it to fool your ears!

But, let's not say that a lot of the old stuff done in studios, with very well defined and studied techniques did not have their cold side either ... we might have a harder time finding those, but there probably were enough of them to help us realize, that it is only as warm or cold as the day outside, and how much the folks at the desk "KNOW". Nothing else.

Alan Parsons was about warmth ... but look where he learnt it all! It was in the studio creating very special and specific positions and situations that helped the instrument sound better, and "warmer". But there are/were many that don't go by that ... a lot of the rap stuff actually comes off better as "cold" rather than the "warm" thing that we think we like to hear.
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Points: 21180 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2023 at 02:47
^ I really like Arjen’s newest release, it is a glorious nod to these golden years of vintage/analog sound. His strategy is to use authentic instruments (nothing digital), but digital recording technology.
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

The modern digital recording technologies simply capture the audio accurately.

I guess not many audiophiles would say that today. Wink

The science-based ones do. It's like Grumpyprogfan says: "the tape added the warmth". All these "audiophiles" who prefer the old, warm-sounding recordings are not really audiophile in the true sense of the word, meaning that the audio signal needs to be preserved as accurately as possible. Rather, they prefer a specific type of sound that the imperfect recording equipment of the 70s created (the technical term is harmonic distortion).

And I agree - those records sound great, while many modern recordings sound "cold". And of course compressing the dynamic range (aka the loudness wars) adds to the problem. But the accuracy of the recording is not the issue - if anything, modern technology captures things too accurately.

This is a great answer! 

I have a very early generation CD of Yes' "Close to the Edge" that was digitized directly from the master tapes.  It's all there....the studio tape his, just as Eddie Offord heard it.   I've compared this CD to others including re-mastered versions, and the later attempts don't sound nearly as "organic." 

Mind you, I didn't care of the hiss/crackle/pop of vinyl records in the early 1970s, and found CDs to be a great improvement.  

The other aspect of this conversation is the instrumentation.  The early prog used analog synths, Mellotrons, Fender Rhodes pianos and Hammond B3 organs, so these all had a generous helping of "funk" in their sound!  

Modern digital instruments are just a tad too precise and clean for my tastes.   The best bands know how to mix and match these technologies. 
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Änglagård Hybris album cover
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-Hamadryad (Canada)
-Visible Wind (Canada),
-Sky Architect (Netherlands),
-Hipgnosis (Poland),
-Annot Rhul (Norway), 
-Gargamel (Norway),
-White Willow (Norway),
-Anekdoten (Sweden),
-Anglagard (Sweden),
-Beardfish (Sweden),
-Landberk (Sweden),
-My Brother The Wind (Sweden),
-Morte Macabre (Anekdoten/Landberk) (Sweden),
-Thieves' Kitchen (UK),
-Glass Hammer (USA),
-IZZ (USA),
-Phideaux (USA),
-Salem Hill (USA).
-
-


Edited by PhideauxFan - June 22 2023 at 04:08
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Points: 21180 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2023 at 14:45
I do understand him. I think the line that he threw in at the end, mentioning Yes, Genesis etc.. causes misunderstandings. Also, in this thread we haven't always been talking only about what he asked for, it was a conversation between several people.

Anyways, going back to what he wrote: He asked for modern recordings that have the same warmth as some of the recordings of the 70s. Apart from that line at the end, he wasn't talking about style at all. I agree that me posting the list of "retro" releases didn't address that properly. To fix that I have added new tags: "Warm Production", "Cold Production". No releases are tagged yet, but I think that this is what he asked for, and indeed, creating a chart with these releases would be something that more people might find useful.


As I'm writing this, there are only two releases in it (that I've tagged myself just now), but it's a start Smile


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - June 21 2023 at 15:07
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ It's really retro, but it also has a very modern guitar sound to it. I love it, but it's not suitable for 70s prog purists.
I don't think GoldenNoseSlim is a 70's prog purist. He even says that he likes modern prog. I'm no purist in any way either. I like "everything under the sun" (well not really). Including some newer bands and projects that make music that sound like it was recorded in the 1970's. I like some contemporary exotica ensembles that sound like they're from the early 1960's too. And guys that compose pretend giallo/horror soundtracks in the style of Goblin/Fabio Frizzi. And plenty of recent Spiritual Jazz that sound very much like it did back in the days. Sometimes it even surpasses the originals. Anyway I just think I understand that he asks for here, and I get the impression that you don't. It's not about being a purist. Purism might as well be having issues with "retro-projects" such as these.
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Points: 21180 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2023 at 08:42
^ It's really retro, but it also has a very modern guitar sound to it. I love it, but it's not suitable for 70s prog purists.
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richardh View Drop Down
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Arjen Lucassen has been mentioned but nothing about his latest project


it does sound very like a lost Rainbow/Deep Purple album but I'm loving the Jon Lord inspired keys!


Edited by richardh - June 21 2023 at 08:39
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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

The new Ring Van Mobius album sounds like it could've easily been created in the 70s

Indeed they are a ringer for 1971 era ELP. Absolutely superb.

Other bands that have superb 'anaolog sound' are Elephant 9, Krokofant, Wobbler, Motopsycho etc. In fact Norwegian bands have more or less cornered the market on this. I consider it to be like RPI but for the modern era.
among the "etceteras" I really like. Now that's analogue warmth for you:

Jordsjø


+ Needlepoint



yep I have both those on my extended Norwegian playlist

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Shamblemaths
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Gazpacho
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Points: 21180 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2023 at 06:21
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

BTW:Here's a list of all studio albums currently tagged as retro prog rock at TYM.



Don't really think of any of those Dream Theater, Spock Beard, Opeth albums as retro, guess that's the perils of tagging.
Yes by looking at that list, I understand why we think differntly about Areyon as well.

That list is not coming from me - it's from many users who all assigned the "retro" tag for their own reasons. What you are looking for is simply a small subset of the list, since you have much more specific requirements than just "retro". The "retro" box is simply too inclusive for you.

Here's a little improvement, now there's an additional filter for the "symphonic" style. Probably still too inclusive ...
https://tagyourmusic.org/chart?page=0&prog=prog&genmod=retro&genre=rock&listStyle=covers&style=symphonic&types=lp%2Cep


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - June 21 2023 at 06:46
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

In a way this request sounds to me like the most un-progressive thing I can think of - "give me music recorded recently which is JUST LIKE that of the 70s prog rock masterpieces, in both sound and style". This is so alien to me that I'm probably completely useless here. LOL
Yes, I'm ok with that. Play what you love and what comes from the heart. If that's a lot like an old established style, just make sure to add some personality. Many listeners and musicians alike are attracted to a sound from bygone times. People tend to prefer old architecture too. If it's done well enough I don't care about the date of release.


Edited by Saperlipopette! - June 21 2023 at 05:42
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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

BTW:Here's a list of all studio albums currently tagged as retro prog rock at TYM.



Don't really think of any of those Dream Theater, Spock Beard, Opeth albums as retro, guess that's the perils of tagging.
Yes by looking at that list, I understand why we think differntly about Areyon as well.
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Points: 21180 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2023 at 05:32
In a way this request sounds to me like the most un-progressive thing I can think of - "give me music recorded recently which is JUST LIKE that of the 70s prog rock masterpieces, in both sound and style". This is so alien to me that I'm probably completely useless here. LOL

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - June 21 2023 at 05:33
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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^ I think they sound "typically modern" - as in 20-25 year old music and not 50. I replied like I did because I'm guessing it's the kind of new prog GoldenNoseSlim isn't looking for. I mean the title of the topic, the opening post, this: "Genesis, Jethro Tull, Yes, Focus... Yeah, love that stuff" all sort of signalize that to me.

The metal elements, the clean sound (as you mentioned) none of what I've heard (two albums) has made me think it sounds 1970's. But maybe they've completly changed since I tried and concluded they weren't for me 15-20 years ago , I wouldn't know.

I do like a lot of new music with a distinct modern production (I suppose mostly outside of prog).


Edited by Saperlipopette! - June 21 2023 at 05:31
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