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Why Is New Music Dying?

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MortSahlFan View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 27 2022 at 13:56
Can this be moved to General Music?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote finnley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2022 at 07:52
Originally posted by Icarium Icarium wrote:

I reccomed watching on youtube Rick Beatos going through of top 10 spotifylists, where he analyzes trends and quality controls the curent music. Very insightfull.
+1
I watched it. Very interesting overview. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2022 at 00:39
I reccomed watching on youtube Rick Beatos going through of top 10 spotifylists, where he analyzes trends and quality controls the curent music. Very insightfull.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 20:07
Originally posted by MortSahlFan MortSahlFan wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by MortSahlFan MortSahlFan wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

...

...

Led Zeppelin would also be there were it not for the father of progressive music who was a helper and friend to a young Jimmy Page.



Maybe you'll answer this question.

Who is the father of progressive music?
Hi,

He was known for Aphrodite's Child and Gentle Giant at the start ... you could say that the man had an ear for music! He had been doing a lot of studio stuff in London, and Jimmy Page was one of his studio players. Later he also worked with Gong, and was with them in their West Coast tour in 1999 when they did the SF Progressive Music Show, of which he was a brief speaker. He said at Gilly's birthday party that he was not the one. The music was!


Does he have a name?
He's referring to Giorgio Gomelsky.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MortSahlFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 16:45
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by MortSahlFan MortSahlFan wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

...

...

Led Zeppelin would also be there were it not for the father of progressive music who was a helper and friend to a young Jimmy Page.



Maybe you'll answer this question.

Who is the father of progressive music?
Hi,

He was known for Aphrodite's Child and Gentle Giant at the start ... you could say that the man had an ear for music! He had been doing a lot of studio stuff in London, and Jimmy Page was one of his studio players. Later he also worked with Gong, and was with them in their West Coast tour in 1999 when they did the SF Progressive Music Show, of which he was a brief speaker. He said at Gilly's birthday party that he was not the one. The music was!


Does he have a name?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jaketejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 10:59
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

...
As far as the mainstream music industry is concerned, it's true that it is vile and disgusting. An industry that once produced The Beatles, Led Zeppelin and Queen have put all their energy into dance pop like Lady Gaga or "controlled" hip hop styles like Kanye West. In that regard music has deteriorated but why even focus on the powers that were when the new paradigm is still in its birth pangs?
...

Hi,

Careful with the words here ... check out the worst business decisions EVER made ... and the Beatles and Rolling Stones are 1 and 2. Led Zeppelin would also be there were it not for the father of progressive music who was a helper and friend to a young Jimmy Page. Queen was later. Lady Gaga, I can't speak about and won't. Kanye, is a part of the black rise in music and control.

I don't think that things have deteriorated at all ... except that we keep thinking that those were great and everything else is not. The real issue is that we have not given new things, and different things a good EAR and chance. You've heard your "favorite" 50 times ... but you have not heard a new something 2 or 3 times, and it has not grown on you because of it.

Music HAS NEVER DIED for hundreds and thousands of years. What has died is our ability to appreciate it and hear it. Opera is not dead ... our generation just won't hear it because it lacks the emotion that you want to see that is in rock music. Until this improves and a new Verdi and a new Puccini show up, the chances are that we will never look at that kind of music as valuable and important ... but for a long time, even its arias were some of the best known songs around.

We have to stop thinking that the world around us is dead, or dying. It's VERY ALIVE but we don't see that tree in our backyard doing great, or the new flowers about to start springing in the next couple of weeks. It's the same thing ... do we notice it? Or not.

We choose to not look at new music properly with the same verve and desire that we do the top 5 ... and if we did, we would not be saying that it was dead ... it's quite alive ... but not at PA where the articles would really only want to say that what was "progressive" for a few hours, is now dead. IT'S NOT DEAD ... it's there in a different way that we have not attuned out ears to, and worse ... we won't!


There is definitely a higher activation energy barrier in being proactive and listening to new music, as well as attuning oneself to what is going on around us in the present. The little things make life all the more enjoyable. There are a number of great points in your post. I find it difficult to listen to music beyond 1989 because of the differences in sound as compared to what my ears are accustomed to. But, for the sake of the new generations, it is definitely a worthy cause. That is a good resolution for 2022!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 07:54
Originally posted by MortSahlFan MortSahlFan wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

[QUOTE=siLLy puPPy]
...
 The main issue is that Paul was not stupid and FORCED a very high number, because he knew that Apple, like any other company would lie and cheat so much to not give out the payouts that they should to any artist out there.


What exactly did Paul do?

Hi,

Demanded the highest price ever paid an artist ... and there were other details I'm sure. Apple was appalled since it was almost twice the next artist they paid (Prince I believe it was), but they knew they did not have a choice and they would still make some money over it. But Paul and the Beatles would never learn how many times this or that song was sold, or how many albums were bought. But I sincerely doubt that sending someone like Paul a check at the end of the year for $632 dollars, is probably going to take the Beatles off Apple right away.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 07:48
Originally posted by MortSahlFan MortSahlFan wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

...

...

Led Zeppelin would also be there were it not for the father of progressive music who was a helper and friend to a young Jimmy Page.



Maybe you'll answer this question.

Who is the father of progressive music?
Hi,

He was known for Aphrodite's Child and Gentle Giant at the start ... you could say that the man had an ear for music! He had been doing a lot of studio stuff in London, and Jimmy Page was one of his studio players. Later he also worked with Gong, and was with them in their West Coast tour in 1999 when they did the SF Progressive Music Show, of which he was a brief speaker. He said at Gilly's birthday party that he was not the one. The music was!


Edited by moshkito - January 25 2022 at 07:49
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MortSahlFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 07:23
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

...

...

Led Zeppelin would also be there were it not for the father of progressive music who was a helper and friend to a young Jimmy Page.



Maybe you'll answer this question.

Who is the father of progressive music?
https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2022 at 18:30
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

...
As far as the mainstream music industry is concerned, it's true that it is vile and disgusting. An industry that once produced The Beatles, Led Zeppelin and Queen have put all their energy into dance pop like Lady Gaga or "controlled" hip hop styles like Kanye West. In that regard music has deteriorated but why even focus on the powers that were when the new paradigm is still in its birth pangs?
...

Hi,

Careful with the words here ... check out the worst business decisions EVER made ... and the Beatles and Rolling Stones are 1 and 2. Led Zeppelin would also be there were it not for the father of progressive music who was a helper and friend to a young Jimmy Page. Queen was later. Lady Gaga, I can't speak about and won't. Kanye, is a part of the black rise in music and control.

I don't think that things have deteriorated at all ... except that we keep thinking that those were great and everything else is not. The real issue is that we have not given new things, and different things a good EAR and chance. You've heard your "favorite" 50 times ... but you have not heard a new something 2 or 3 times, and it has not grown on you because of it.

Music HAS NEVER DIED for hundreds and thousands of years. What has died is our ability to appreciate it and hear it. Opera is not dead ... our generation just won't hear it because it lacks the emotion that you want to see that is in rock music. Until this improves and a new Verdi and a new Puccini show up, the chances are that we will never look at that kind of music as valuable and important ... but for a long time, even its arias were some of the best known songs around.

We have to stop thinking that the world around us is dead, or dying. It's VERY ALIVE but we don't see that tree in our backyard doing great, or the new flowers about to start springing in the next couple of weeks. It's the same thing ... do we notice it? Or not.

We choose to not look at new music properly with the same verve and desire that we do the top 5 ... and if we did, we would not be saying that it was dead ... it's quite alive ... but not at PA where the articles would really only want to say that what was "progressive" for a few hours, is now dead. IT'S NOT DEAD ... it's there in a different way that we have not attuned out ears to, and worse ... we won't!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Jaketejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2022 at 17:30
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

I listened to 310 albums that were released in 2021 (and I'm sure there are others here that have listened to more than I have). Of these, I would rate at least 150 of them as 4-star efforts or higher. I can't say the same about 1973.




You are awesome! I’m sure even the lower rated bands are giving it all they got. Writing and recording and producing music is really hard. Since most bands can’t make a living at it, they are working on it at nights and days off. Anymore, I think many bands these days just want to get their art out there and be appreciated by someone … anyone. What you and the many others on PA are doing is a worthy cause and you are to be commended. Those ratings and reviews mean a lot to artists. Most people just listen and don’t leave anything … except maybe a “view” on some sites. Things are a bit detached these days. Gone are the days of buying the albums, going to the shows, and buying the merchandise. A few will get lucky and get selected for film or video games or whatnot. But, for most, best to keep that day job! Like Harry in Sultans of Swing. “And Harry doesn't mind, if he doesn't, make the scene
He's got a daytime job, he's doing alright”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MortSahlFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2022 at 16:31
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

[QUOTE=siLLy puPPy]
...
 The main issue is that Paul was not stupid and FORCED a very high number, because he knew that Apple, like any other company would lie and cheat so much to not give out the payouts that they should to any artist out there.


What exactly did Paul do?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2022 at 15:27
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

I listened to 310 albums that were released in 2021 (and I'm sure there are others here that have listened to more than I have). Of these, I would rate at least 150 of them as 4-star efforts or higher. I can't say the same about 1973.




Bingo! I totally agree. There's simply too much excellent music to keep up with!

Periods of transition in history are always awkward.

I'm proud of musicians for hanging in there despite all the obstaclese!

Go team!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2022 at 13:25
I listened to 310 albums that were released in 2021 (and I'm sure there are others here that have listened to more than I have). Of these, I would rate at least 150 of them as 4-star efforts or higher. I can't say the same about 1973.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jaketejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2022 at 12:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthSideoftheSky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2022 at 10:29
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ i honestly know nothing about streaming services because i NEVER use them but from what i've been hearing, it's nothing more than publicity

As far as more reliable sources like Bandcamp and downloading services, it's totally traceable and don't forget that many artists still sell old fashioned vinyl and CDs. Some even still do cassettes!

Since i don't rely on streaming services or someone else to play music for me i would just suggest that although the modern world is very different than the past, there have never been more opportunities.

These days one has to take a proactive role in discovering new music and not rely on radio or other sources of spoon fed music. Having said that we do have an excellent college radio station here in the Bay Area which plays some excellent obscure stuff! But that's the exception for sure.

Let's face it, unless an artist takes control of the business aspect of his / her art form, there will always be exploitation and that is just as true today as it was throughout the entire music industry's existence.

Looking at the larger picture though, artists now have the ability to be completely independent from all external sources of potential exploitation. If artists are unwilling or unable to take advantage of these developments is a completely separate topic.

As far as the mainstream music industry is concerned, it's true that it is vile and disgusting. An industry that once produced The Beatles, Led Zeppelin and Queen have put all their energy into dance pop like Lady Gaga or "controlled" hip hop styles like Kanye West. In that regard music has deteriorated but why even focus on the powers that were when the new paradigm is still in its birth pangs?

Somehow i feel the new musical paradigm will evolve into something even better than we ever could've imagined but it will involve escaping much larger systems of control beyond the world of music.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2022 at 08:19
^ i honestly know nothing about streaming services because i NEVER use them but from what i've been hearing, it's nothing more than publicity

As far as more reliable sources like Bandcamp and downloading services, it's totally traceable and don't forget that many artists still sell old fashioned vinyl and CDs. Some even still do cassettes!

Since i don't rely on streaming services or someone else to play music for me i would just suggest that although the modern world is very different than the past, there have never been more opportunities.

These days one has to take a proactive role in discovering new music and not rely on radio or other sources of spoon fed music. Having said that we do have an excellent college radio station here in the Bay Area which plays some excellent obscure stuff! But that's the exception for sure.

Let's face it, unless an artist takes control of the business aspect of his / her art form, there will always be exploitation and that is just as true today as it was throughout the entire music industry's existence.

Looking at the larger picture though, artists now have the ability to be completely independent from all external sources of potential exploitation. If artists are unwilling or unable to take advantage of these developments is a completely separate topic.

As far as the mainstream music industry is concerned, it's true that it is vile and disgusting. An industry that once produced The Beatles, Led Zeppelin and Queen have put all their energy into dance pop like Lady Gaga or "controlled" hip hop styles like Kanye West. In that regard music has deteriorated but why even focus on the powers that were when the new paradigm is still in its birth pangs?

Somehow i feel the new musical paradigm will evolve into something even better than we ever could've imagined but it will involve escaping much larger systems of control beyond the world of music.



Edited by siLLy puPPy - January 24 2022 at 08:21

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2022 at 08:02
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

...
Are you telling me newer bands like Black Midi, Squid and Injury Reserve (just to name a very few) aren't making $$$ simply selling streamed music when they have over 10,000 ratings on RYM alone? Come on!

If artists like Joe and old school musicians are so concerned then why don't they revive the music industry themselves? They have the $$$.

Hi,

I think that you are mentioning the problem without realizing it. Some of those bands make some money or not is the issue ... and this also goes for Spotify and Bandcamp. 

THE IRS and a revenue counting institution (like the English, French or German) DO NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO GET NUMBERS, from you so they can tax you. Not to mention that you probably say that you sold 5 and in actuality you sold 10! The streaming services, DO NOT show their numbers, and do not post it, and it is all "hidden" and if my name was the IRS, I would put a stop to that and close down the streaming service the minute I saw them cheat. Of course, the real problem here is that it hurts the musicians more, but you can not assume that the next streaming service is more honest than the next!

The day that "purchases" are listed and shown PROPERLY, is the day that we will find that ... GOOD TRUCKING RIDDANCE OF THE RECORD COMPANIES! 

New music is not in a death spiral ... what is on a death spiral is our continuing being stuck in the time warp song playing the same top five and refusing to give the new things a SOLID listen in order to realize that there is something good here!

It will be a cold day in hell, when any streaming service is honest enough to show the numbers "LIVE" so you know exactly what is selling and what is not. C'mon, you really think Apple was stupid to go after The Beatles and many others? The main issue is that Paul was not stupid and FORCED a very high number, because he knew that Apple, like any other company would lie and cheat so much to not give out the payouts that they should to any artist out there. 

How do we know, how many of this or that were sold? 

The day we have a way of telling, will be the day that you know, for sure, that record company controlling stooges (all of these services are a part of an old record company, except Apple) can no longer lie and cheat ... but in places like ... well ... you really think things are better in America, than England, than Japan? Think again, and look at the castles and cars and planes of rich folks! Many did not make this by accident!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2022 at 07:49
Originally posted by SouthSideoftheSky SouthSideoftheSky wrote:

...
People are going to continue to make music for many more thousands of years to come, but the creative explosion that came in the late 60’s and early 70’s only happened yesterday. The “old” classic progressive Rock albums are still very much current and are going to remain so. Music that was recorded only 50 years ago is new!


Hi,

It's been said that huge creative moments within a century only happen once or twice. I think the 20th century had movies for one, and then the music craze thing that ended up birthing "progressive" for us, is the 2nd ... and I say that because music was not the only "art" that carried it. And this is the part that folks tend to overlook. A "scene" is much more than a fad, and lasts a lot longer. As an example, the punk thing was a fad, and died as quickly as it came up. "Progressive" was not a fad, but a direct result of the freedom and attitude that many other artists had, going back to the late 50's and early 60's, and already visible in many areas, in film, theater, literature and other disciplines. Rock music was one of those arts. The same as "jazz" although some are finding that the streak of jazz proceeded the 50's even, though finding recordings of it then, is difficult specially when the movie studios OWNED all publishing abilities and they were not going to fund anyone but their own "stars" ... so you have a "star is born" with a fake color screen in the background, and we find it far out! Plastic is already replacing the reality!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2022 at 07:12
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:


RYM is garbage dump, anyone can write reviews there and it shows, Allmusic is much better, they actually have knowledgeable writers.


That could be said about this site too or any site that allows anyone to contribute.

Personally i've discovered more prog on RYM than here. This database has been woefully incomplete and i've suggested dozens of artists that have been included here having discovered them on RYM.

Same goes for jazz and metal.

The RYM site is totally up to date and more and more users prefer that site because it is designed exponentially better than any of M@X's sites.

Just an example, Close To The Edge has over 22,000 ratings currently whereas on PA it only has 4770.

AllMusic is good but not great. Horrible site layout and some of the reviews are totally wrong as far as facts go.

What makes PA worth visiting is the cool peeps who use it and PA does have some artists that haven't yet been added to RYM especially some of the newer ones.

RYM has been getting better at deleting stupid reviews that are worthless.


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