Genesis, Nursery Cryme and their critics

I just checked out the list from RS. While there's plenty of great music in there, I do find that prog-rock is rather under-represented, which is not surprising from RS. There are 3 prog-rock albums from Pink Floyd, one from Yes, one from Rush, one from Can...and I think that's about it. Even newer prog-rock bands hardly appear. Out of 500 albums? By comparison, while Rate Your Music does not have a top 500 list, one can see the ranking of each album of a particular artist. Floyd has 5 albums from their prog era among the top 500 rated albums, King Crimson 4, Genesis 3, Can 3, Yes, 2, Rush 1, Tull 1 but Aqualung almost makes it. Most of these albums have 10,000-15,000 ratings or more from people who care enough about music to register and vote. How many people were involved in the RS list? 300 artists, critics, producers and "music industry figures".  Hhhmm.. Don't get me wrong, there's no perfect list (and I'm sure there's some bias in Rate Your Music as well), and I like a lot of the music on the RS list, but I'll take the advice of the "interested" music public any time before that of RS.        

Argentinfonico wrote: Rolling Stone magazine has completely lost its prestige. I don't know if you've all seen their new top of "the greatest albums of all time", but it couldn't be worse. For starters, I'm going to say that The Dark Side Of The Moon is at number 55! A complete disgrace, because if you look at the albums ranked ahead, you can't believe the choices they've made. Rap, hip hop and other works that, without detracting from them at all, simply cannot be placed so far above Pink Floyd's best and most transcendent work. Close To The Edge ranks 447, far below many, many reggaeton, trap and other almost miserable genres where the music is downplayed to its most deplorable degree. As for the works of Genesis, it is more than clear that the magazine editions that criticised the band so severely were corrupted by national and political interests. The Genesis era with Peter Gabriel is one of the most revolutionary in the history of music. Creativity is brought to its peak and all the albums that have been born from Trespass to TLLDOB are marvellous from beginning to end. The thing to do with these execrable magazines is to never read them again!

Edited by richardh - November 22 2021 at 01:30

Argentinfonico wrote: It has nothing to do with my tastes or my preferences. Precisely, everything I said there goes from my humble musical judgement and how I think a "best of" list should be put together, taking into account such important factors as creativity, purity, production, concept, message and many other aspects that make up the quality and immortality of a musical work. TDSOTM is probably the only album of the 20th century that has marked a before and after in the history of music. This diversity that Rolling Stone offers is populism at its purest, as the list has been created based on current critics and statistics showing the musical genres that are most listened to today. That's what I want to make clear; that there is no musical criteria here, only popular criteria! How can you place so many albums above TDSOTM (which is part of the pinnacle of general music)? Or even many of The Beatles' albums. Have you seen where Sgt Peppers has been placed now? It is undeniable that musical judgement has deteriorated to rubble because of the catastrophes caused by the internet and the severe punishments of the people through social networks. European traditions may retain some unbreakable pillars within their music, but in other parts of the world, such as the United States or South America, creativity is increasingly limited to computers. Instruments are losing their meaning... in music! It is an absolute sin. And we are not talking about replacing them with nature sounds or purposely created to form a curious melody. Today the same electronic rhythms predominate again and again in the vast majority of created music. That it is allowed to abolish the structure that great genres such as classical music or progressive rock have created is for me something that deserves to be carefully reviewed. Do you want to make your music like this? Fine, make it as you please. Your work is probably good and remarkable. But from there to disrespecting fundamental albums just to avoid hurting people's sensibilities (because in that list there is no musical parameter to decide it)? There is a great distance.

Edited by Argentinfonico - November 21 2021 at 11:28

Argentinfonico wrote: Rolling Stone magazine has completely lost its prestige. I don't know if you've all seen their new top of "the greatest albums of all time", but it couldn't be worse. For starters, I'm going to say that The Dark Side Of The Moon is at number 55! A complete disgrace, because if you look at the albums ranked ahead, you can't believe the choices they've made. Rap, hip hop and other works that, without detracting from them at all, simply cannot be placed so far above Pink Floyd's best and most transcendent work. Close To The Edge ranks 447, far below many, many reggaeton, trap and other almost miserable genres where the music is downplayed to its most deplorable degree. As for the works of Genesis, it is more than clear that the magazine editions that criticised the band so severely were corrupted by national and political interests. The Genesis era with Peter Gabriel is one of the most revolutionary in the history of music. Creativity is brought to its peak and all the albums that have been born from Trespass to TLLDOB are marvellous from beginning to end. The thing to do with these execrable magazines is to never read them again!

Sacro_Porgo wrote: dr prog wrote: Tull aren’t even in the HOF. Their album remix book set is the best collection in history Oh don't get me started on the rock hall. What kind of institution claiming to be home to only the greatest rock artists of all time has an annual induction model that's so limited they're still inducting acts from the 60's and 70's? Like, you've been around how long and you're just now deciding they're great? Just because you only want to induct a handful of artists a year at some big expensive ceremony with as many rock stars as you can get to come because your museum doesn't make enough profit on its own?? And then of course they're the constant snubbing. They didn't even nominate Yes until after Chris Squire passed away, and then they still went through a round where Yes were nominated but not chosen before they got inducted in the next round. Meanwhile all the members of Genesis are still alive and they've been in for ages. I'd love to just hand wave that as playing favorites to the band with more pop hits, but it's not like 90125 and Big Generator weren't huge sellers in their own right! I still hear Owner Of A Lonely Heart on the radio all the time, not to mention Yes' prog stuff had more hits than Genesis' prog! That's just the tip of the iceberg. The Rock Hall, Rolling Stone, and Pitchfork. Three very famous hacks.

They’re dumb lol
Of the millions of bands to exist there’s a reason Tull are the only band ever to have this

I wasn't aware that Keith Emerson was a fan of the Genesis until I saw someone posted the review here (thanks for that). Maybe it was not reciprocal but Tony Banks did recognize the influence of The Nice on their music. Per un Amico is an album I am still discovering.

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Philchem8 wrote: I was planning to avoid debating the quality of Genesis' music but seeing that comment get reposted, I thought I'll give my two-cents as Selling England By the Pound is one of my favourite albums. So far, I have not found an album by any artist that I consider perfect, so I won't try to defend every song, but point out that SEBTP is usually voted or considered among the top 5 Prog-Rock albums of all time. Firth of Fifth, Cinema Show and Dancing with the Moonlight Knight are among the great classics of that era and have been voted among the top 10 Genesis songs by 40,000 readers of Prog Magazine (check it out). Only Foxtrot comes close to that level of recognition. I'm not sure if early Genesis were as technically innovative as ELP - maybe not, but technical innovation is not the most important element that makes good music that endures through the years, in my view. Overall creativity and ability in musical construction, rhythm and melodies, as well as passionate execution, are all as important - and there I think the young Genesis was plentiful. Their complex arrangements and lyrics did not always quite work, but there was something undeniably new, adventurous, touching and beautiful, yet imperfect, in what they were doing. This is maybe why their music has held up better than ELP's in the long-run, even though at the time ELP was bigger. It's clear from Trespass that these were damn good musicians but still evolving and maturing. However, I feel that by SEBTP, their musicianship was astounding and as good as anything else at the time for what they were doing.

dr prog wrote: Tull aren’t even in the HOF. Their album remix book set is the best collection in history

I was planning to avoid debating the quality of Genesis' music but seeing that comment get reposted, I thought I'll give my two-cents as Selling England By the Pound is one of my favourite albums. So far, I have not found an album by any artist that I consider perfect, so I won't try to defend every song, but point out that SEBTP is usually voted or considered among the top 5 Prog-Rock albums of all time. Firth of Fifth, Cinema Show and Dancing with the Moonlight Knight are among the great classics of that era and have been voted among the top 10 Genesis songs by 40,000 readers of Prog Magazine (check it out). Only Foxtrot comes close to that level of recognition. I'm not sure if early Genesis were as technically innovative as ELP - maybe not, but technical innovation is not the most important element that makes good music that endures through the years, in my view. Overall creativity and ability in musical construction, rhythm and melodies, as well as passionate execution, are all as important - and there I think the young Genesis was plentiful. Their complex arrangements and lyrics did not always quite work, but there was something undeniably new, adventurous, touching and beautiful, yet imperfect, in what they were doing. This is maybe why their music has held up better than ELP's in the long-run, even though at the time ELP was bigger. It's clear from Trespass that these were damn good musicians but still evolving and maturing. However, I feel that by SEBTP, their musicianship was astounding and as good as anything else at the time for what they were doing.