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When was the game up for prog rock?

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Poll Question: What event made you think it was over?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
6 [20.69%]
8 [27.59%]
1 [3.45%]
5 [17.24%]
1 [3.45%]
1 [3.45%]
7 [24.14%]
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dr wu23 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: When was the game up for prog rock?
    Posted: July 14 2022 at 09:54
Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Other: When Bob Fripp hooked up with Toyah.


...and what an odd pairing that is....must  be true that opposites attract,
Wink

But as someone else said above it's just evolving.....since 1980 or so there have been many talented and interesting bands ... 3 I like... IQ, Porcupine Tree, and Wobbler...


Edited by dr wu23 - July 14 2022 at 09:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2022 at 03:57
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

The game was up for classic prog around about 1980, but all was not lost, as the birth of the Neo-Prog era was just around the corner. Smile

80/81 

In 1980 you had Drama by Yes, Permanent Waves by Rush and Duke by Genesis (which still had some very proggy stuff on it).

In 1981 you had Discipline by King Crimson, Moving Pictures by Rush and Nude by Camel.

In 1982 you had Asia's debut and Signals by Rush. I still like these two but they aren't as prog as the others I mentioned in the two years before them. In 1982 you also had the beginnings of neo prog which could be considered a watered down version of prog. 
That blows my half-baked theory out of the water then. Tongue

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote geekfreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2022 at 03:43
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Keep Calm And Listen To The Music…
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote essexboyinwales Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2021 at 08:37
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I went for the top one. I tend to think that the progressive rock years as being 1969-1975, pretty muhc King Crimson's debut to Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here. Then it was 'done' . However I nearly wept when I heard Genesis - Abacab so that for me was when it really sunk in totally.


I think I'm too young (51 yesterday!) to "get" why so many of you can't get past these early years as the ultimate prog years.  I figure that if you lived through and experienced and loved the first prog then it was a very special time.

But it's really not the only time when great prog was being made.  And it has never died!!

I'm 59 but was 15 (1977) when I started to acquire an interest in 'prog rock' as such , mainly ELP but not a lot else. I am therefore looking at it very much retrospectively and didn't really live through it. If you read up on the very well known rock journalist Chris Welch he tends to think of it this way. The movement was virtually done by 1976 and only the formation of supergroup UK kept it going it a few more years. For me I became more liberated about my attitude to prog and music in general when I stopped being hung up on this fact. 
As you well know, I'm a great supporter of modern prog bands and certainly don't think they are any less good than the classic bands. There are fantastic musicians out there and the likes of Anathema, Big Big Train , Frost*, The Mute Gods , Wobbler , Elephant 9 ( I could go on a lot more lol) give me an immense amount of pleasure. But it's just music to me , but if we talking about the 'progressive rock movement' then it stopped a long time ago. What we have now is a wonderfully diverse bunch who go nicely under the radar. Perhaps that's just a lot better and how it should be. 


Thanks for the explanation, and I get what you're saying!

I just feel that the tone of this thread suggests that prog is dead, whereas it so clearly isn'tLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2021 at 03:11
Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I went for the top one. I tend to think that the progressive rock years as being 1969-1975, pretty muhc King Crimson's debut to Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here. Then it was 'done' . However I nearly wept when I heard Genesis - Abacab so that for me was when it really sunk in totally.


I think I'm too young (51 yesterday!) to "get" why so many of you can't get past these early years as the ultimate prog years.  I figure that if you lived through and experienced and loved the first prog then it was a very special time.

But it's really not the only time when great prog was being made.  And it has never died!!

I'm 59 but was 15 (1977) when I started to acquire an interest in 'prog rock' as such , mainly ELP but not a lot else. I am therefore looking at it very much retrospectively and didn't really live through it. If you read up on the very well known rock journalist Chris Welch he tends to think of it this way. The movement was virtually done by 1976 and only the formation of supergroup UK kept it going it a few more years. For me I became more liberated about my attitude to prog and music in general when I stopped being hung up on this fact. 
As you well know, I'm a great supporter of modern prog bands and certainly don't think they are any less good than the classic bands. There are fantastic musicians out there and the likes of Anathema, Big Big Train , Frost*, The Mute Gods , Wobbler , Elephant 9 ( I could go on a lot more lol) give me an immense amount of pleasure. But it's just music to me , but if we talking about the 'progressive rock movement' then it stopped a long time ago. What we have now is a wonderfully diverse bunch who go nicely under the radar. Perhaps that's just a lot better and how it should be. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2021 at 21:10
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by TheLionOfPrague TheLionOfPrague wrote:

What's the Virgin meeting BTW?



You have to scroll down a bit to reach label developments circa '76

"The Virgin roster was ruthlessly purged of its least commercial pre-punk oddballs and restocked with short-haired, angular-sounding signings like Devo, XTC and the Skids."


WOW! That article is fascinating!!! Thanks for sharing Clap

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2021 at 19:49
Originally posted by TheLionOfPrague TheLionOfPrague wrote:

What's the Virgin meeting BTW?



You have to scroll down a bit to reach label developments circa '76

"The Virgin roster was ruthlessly purged of its least commercial pre-punk oddballs and restocked with short-haired, angular-sounding signings like Devo, XTC and the Skids."


Edited by ExittheLemming - October 28 2021 at 19:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheLionOfPrague Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2021 at 12:06
What's the Virgin meeting BTW?
I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iluvmarillion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2021 at 16:46
Originally posted by Rick1 Rick1 wrote:

^ Thatcher got elected in 79 - well past the peak of punk

Anti-Thatcher, anti-monarchy. I don't think it really matters. The Beatles and Rolling Stones started off anti-establishment and the the prog movement took over their mantle, but the prog movement maintained respect for it's musical roots. The punk movement basically took the anti-establishment theme further and turned it into anti-everything. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earl of Mar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2021 at 09:48
Abacab.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progishness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2021 at 09:41
Other: When Bob Fripp hooked up with Toyah.
"We're going to need a bigger swear jar."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheLionOfPrague Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2021 at 08:52
When Yes, King Crimson and ELP took a break after 1974 it certainly didn't help. Jethro Tull also moved away from prog to folk-rock. 

Overall I don't think nothing in particular happened, just the "circle of life". What happened to glam metal at the end of the '80s? Punk at the end of the '70s? Grunge in the mid '90s? Psychedelic rock in the late '60s? Genres enjoy a period of popularity when they're new and then they lose popularity. One could argue prog had actually a pretty long run ('69-'78 roughly) and there were several succesfull acts after it as well (Marillion, Tool, Dream Theater). 
I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2021 at 05:29
^ Thatcher got elected in 79 - well past the peak of punk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iluvmarillion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2021 at 04:00
Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

As many people have said, I don't think punk had much of a hand in killing prog music. I see the situation as more of the 1983 Video Game Crash effect, in which there was an oversaturation of bands who lost the plot on what progressive rock was "meant" to accomplish, and a mix of that and changing trends led to the genre's decline. Not to mention, a lot of bands were either changing or breaking up before the punk movement even started - King Crimson's original 1974 breakup being a solid example of this. 

Then again, I wasn't alive back then so that's all just my speculation. And right now, there's a ton of great modern prog for people to check out... you just have to dig deeper than before to find it.
Basically bands were changing or breaking up as you say for the simple reason that those bands weren't making money. The end was coming when bands like Emerson Lake & Palmer were taking huge orchestras out on the road. They were bleeding money. You can't keep doing it without something breaking. The other thing is that people were getting sick of 10 minute guitar solos and 30 minute songs. Punk offered a simple alternative where you reacted to what the musicians were saying rather than what they were playing - mostly antiestablishment and a rejection of Maggie Thatcher's England. When prog revived in the 90's it came about because of the love of music of the prog era and the challenge of being able to play it. This era of prog isn't about money because there isn't money to be made from prog, just a love of the music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote essexboyinwales Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2021 at 03:51
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I went for the top one. I tend to think that the progressive rock years as being 1969-1975, pretty muhc King Crimson's debut to Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here. Then it was 'done' . However I nearly wept when I heard Genesis - Abacab so that for me was when it really sunk in totally.


I think I'm too young (51 yesterday!) to "get" why so many of you can't get past these early years as the ultimate prog years.  I figure that if you lived through and experienced and loved the first prog then it was a very special time.

But it's really not the only time when great prog was being made.  And it has never died!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2021 at 00:45
I went for the top one. I tend to think that the progressive rock years as being 1969-1975, pretty muhc King Crimson's debut to Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here. Then it was 'done' . However I nearly wept when I heard Genesis - Abacab so that for me was when it really sunk in totally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rednight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2021 at 15:40
One choice could have been Locanda Delle Fate's Forse Le Lucciole Non Si Amano Pia (1977). Too little, too late in the classic prog sweepstakes.
"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2021 at 14:38
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Cboi Sandlin Cboi Sandlin wrote:

Why isnt punk rock an option, because thats the right answer

Punk did not kill prog, I don't see how it could have. 
It was the lack of support from labels, ridicule from the media of the time, a lot of bands honoring contracts and delivering whatever (Love Beach is such an example, also Tormato), bands asked to make their sound more accessible (Gentle Giant, ELO, Yes), some bands going on hiatus or disbanding, bands tired of their former sound (Genesis, or at least Mike Rutherford said so), musicians tired of touring needing a break.

Not that black and white...

The question is "what made you think that...?" not "what killed...?"
Exactly, it seems the answers are debating that it is not dead, that's not the question. I don't think it is dead, but there certainly was a huge change that happened in the 80s that created a decline in the output of progressive rock, simple change. There was a period of bleakness in the late 80s thru most of the 90s, but it seems a lot of prog/proggy music has come back over the past 15 yrs or so. I still doubt the music masses know who the hell Gentle Giant or Camel is, and if they do they don't call it progressive music.

The core of the OP question to me is why did progressive music lose its importance after the 70s and what caused that change? As was mentioned there were many bands/albums that ranked in top lists, JTull issuing 2 #1 albums in the US and both charting way up there in other countries too......Would never happen today, or even in the 90's. What was it Crest Of A Knave that did really well from 1987 and beat out Metallica for a Grammy, not that I consider Crest a traditional progressive rock album but more straight up rock, proggy maybe at best. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rednight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2021 at 14:26
Love Beach cover. Shocker.
"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2021 at 14:18
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

  The 80s was anomaly and a forced one by the recording industry.
Actually one could say the seventies (or rather 67-76) were an anomaly with all this outpour of creativity and complexity (and, to some extent, escapism) that could gain popularity. Normally what appeals to the masses is more simplistic (I'm not again straight simple music though). One could argue that what happened afterwards "corrected" the "excesses" of the early seventies. I suspect the more natural place of prog and the prog lovers is a niche, not the focus of public attention, and a niche is where we are now. 

Hmm, yes, good observation.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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