Dylan or Shadows? - Progressive Rock Music Forum

nick_h_nz wrote:

As I pointed out in the appropriate poll, Chris Cutler started off in a Shadows cover band. He is a phenomenal prog drummer, but one has to assume he was at least somewhat influenced by the Shadows....

I love BJ Wilson’s drumming for Procol Harum, and he definitely stated his greatest influence was Tony Meehan.

It is a shame in a way, that the Shadows are so associated with Cliff Richard, as it potentially means people think less of them.

Have you ever watched Live at The Union Chapel it's one of my favorite DVDs. But I see the archives rate In Concert With The Danish National Concert Orchestra And Choir higher. I might have to get it to compare it.

earlyprog wrote:

(Admittedly, this is an attempt to perform a first aid procedure for cardiac arrest to this thread....)

I don't recognize any of the two songs (Dylan 'House of the rising Sun and Shadows 'Little "B"') as game changers. Both artists were game changers, but Dylan not until 1963 and Shadows with other songs from 1962.

Don't get too hung up about the two song choices. They were deliberate when i did my initial post. Dylan was an easy choice with House of the Rising Sun as that would inevitably compare with The Animals besides him being acknowledged for his Folk contribution by almost everyone.

The Shadows a little tougher since many associate them with Cliff Richards and easier to pooh pooh away. I chose the drum solo Little B simply because you can associate it to modern rock drummers. No other reason as you rightly point out they have many other songs to choose from as participated by you and others :)

ps... remember that this post was also more about questions around older artists inspiring others to get to where it all ends up in the late 60s which is much easier to document.

Nick

Edited by Spaciousmind - March 27 2021 at 13:35

Spaciousmind wrote:

Anyway your thoughts about these two songs from almost 60 years ago, were these two songs big influencers to future drummers, musicians, singers, writers yes or no?

For the year 1962 or earlier what else would you add or consider as game changers?

(Admittedly, this is an attempt to perform a first aid procedure for cardiac arrest to this thread....)

I don't recognize any of the two songs (Dylan 'House of the rising Sun and Shadows 'Little "B"') as game changers. Both artists were game changers, but Dylan not until 1963 and Shadows with other songs from 1962.

I have listed other '62 tracks above and will move back in time to '61 with clavioline (a game changer) and the whole game changing instrument lot:

earlyprog wrote:

What I always liked about you, Steve, is your patience and persistence with ignorant PA members.....and your profound knowledge...and we never really disagreed....

Thanks Dan. But we must have disagreed about something. This is PA, after all.

All the best mate.

This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.

SteveG wrote:

^ Nice. What's up Dan? Hope all's well!

I'm alive and kickin' well, dear Steve Smile

Perhaps some of my early US pre-proto-prog can support your opinions in your 'Early UK vs US prog' thread.

Surely, I'm supporting your view on the Zappa/Beefheart/RIO Avant Prog US direction... Wink

This thread died when it was moved to it's proper location where only few will see it LOL

Nonetheless, it's remains interesting, IMO, so here's my part II of what they were cooking in Proto-Prog's R&D Department in 1962.

'Telstar' by The Tornados is epic as stated earlier but definitely also this:

Edited by earlyprog - March 26 2021 at 12:11

Cactus Choir wrote:

Jan Akkerman of Focus is another guitarist who I think sounds like he has a bit of a Shadows influence when you listen to tracks like Focus II and Tommy. On a separate note I've always thought this was a pretty heavy sounding track for 1965:

Thanks for sharing it. No question in my mind about that sounding like proto prog.

With The Shadows or as they were known before that, The Drifters you can hear proto as far back as 1959. Try this one called Jet Black.

Well if it takes organ or keyboard to make it to proto prog, do I detect some organ here in 1959?

A couple of others from the Drifters worth checking out are Chinchilla and Driftin'

Nick

I would say that inbetween the lyricisme of Dylan and instrumental focus of the Shadows, one also got the vocal harmonies of the Everly Brothers, the freedom of jazz and the rule breaking mentality of contemporary classical music.

Edited by Icarium - March 24 2021 at 05:36

Spaciousmind wrote:

Sure the Shadows might have influenced guitarists and drummers etc or Dillan to add Folk Rock to the equation. Neither of these I would say inspired the above mentioned greats who in turn combined had a much greater impact to what eventually developed into psychedelia and progressive rock.

Well it seems I assumed wrongly when I wrote this earlier. Will have to make a note to myself to research further before making future statements because I just read this at the bottom of The Shadows Wiki page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shadows

The Shadows have been cited as a major influence on many guitarists, including Brian May, Eric Clapton, Mark Knopfler, Andy Summers, Ritchie Blackmore, David Gilmour, and Tony Iommi. A tribute album, Twang! A Tribute to Hank Marvin & the Shadows , in October 1996 featured Blackmore, Iommi, Peter Green, Randy Bachman, Neil Young, Mark Knopfler, Peter Frampton and others playing Shadows hits. The early set of Queen (who played their first gig on 27 June 1970 with Freddie Mercury, Roger Taylor and Brian May) included a cover of Cliff and the Shadows' "Please Don't Tease"

Well there you go, you can't have bigger names than this. They don't exist in the Rock or Prog world.

Well if you read even further down at the Wiki page you will see that ALL of Yugoslav rock was founded around the Shadows, apparently even the Beatles were not as popular over there.

So the moral of the story is that we assume too much in our English speaking world about other countries likes and dislikes. I certainly did in my earlier quote.

Nick

1962?

The Shadows had a lot of great stuff that year: Wonderful Land, Guitar Tango and Perfidia.

Other great stuff from the R&D department of proto-prog that year (part 1):

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