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MortSahlFan View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 13 2021 at 13:06
Outside of music, movies, stand-up comedy, and interviews, I love language. Origins of words, cognates, how they were influenced, all that.

Native (American) English speaker. I took Spanish and German in school, and I spent college working with Mexicans, so I learned even more. I knew people who lived in Greece for a few years, so I asked if they could write the alphabet for me, and learned some basics. I spent a huge chunk of my 20s and early 30s (I'm still in my 30s) traveling overseas and learned a lot that way, when you're forced to talk, as opposed to just reading a book, or a few dictionaries I have. I can speak Aramaic well. My uncle married a Syrian woman, so I learned some Arabic. I've been to The Netherlands 6 times, so I learned some Dutch, but have a tendency to get German/Dutch confused, which is what happened after I started to learn Italian, getting it mixed up with Spanish.

I also love (older) foreign movies, but I just had someone say "We don't use that word anymore, except my grandpa", but it helps... When I was in Australia, I remember drinking a bottle of wine, and then being able to speak the best German in a conversation with friends I made in the hostel. I think its about inhibition, not overthinking or worrying about making mistakes... You can learn a lot just by listening, too, especially if you know the gist of the sentence, and basically filling in the blank, especially with the heavy influences of Latin and Greek.

It's a great thing to learn. For example, if you learn Spanish, you can communicate with a billion new people you couldn't speak with beforehand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shadowyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2021 at 12:05
This comprehensive article might be of some use for some. Check it out.

https://psyche.co/guides/how-to-approach-the-lifelong-project-of-language-learning
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Woon Deadn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2020 at 05:09
Languages undoubtedly reflect and influence the ways of thinking, ways of comprehension of things. 

There're no articles (like a/an/the) in Russian, Ukrainian, Polish, Czech or Serbian. Copula is not usually used in the Present tense in Russian and classic Ukrainian. Thus, "I am an engineer" becomes simply Ya inzhen'Er in Russian. 

In Russian there're different letters for sounds i like in peel, [ih] like in this and [j] like in boy. And there's no collusion between them. Thus, the donkey named Eeyore in Winnie The Pooh is simply iA-iA (accent falls on a, that is) in Russian - for English-speaking brains it sounds like ya-ya, but for Russians it's just ee-AH ee-AH. 
There's a well-known Russian band Leningrad with one of their songs called Moi Khui (My d*cks), and the name doesn't read moy khuy (that would be singular, My d*ck). it reads muh-EE khoo-EE.

Then, kh doesn't read like k! The Russian sound that is transcribed in English as kh is a voiceless English h, but it's always voiceless and it's produced a bit differently than in English h. But it's evidently h, never k! 

On a global scale, all these features must symbolize something, reflect some special peculiarities of the people that invented, developed and use that language. 


Edited by Woon Deadn - October 19 2020 at 05:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2020 at 16:10
English as my mother tongue.

I understand a lot of Welsh having lived here for 21 years now, but could not describe myself as fluent. 

A little bit of Italian, and would love to be better, and I am trying my best to learn Maltese as we would love to at least partly retire to my second country in a few years time. 

Unfortunately, I find learning languages extremely difficult.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Woon Deadn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2020 at 15:51
Usually, the languages of the same language family share much more similarities than people tend to notice. 

Not long ago I have noticed that the English word "beneath" may be translated by the Russian word "vnizu", for good example. 

Also, parallels like tree - derevo, or even road - doroga. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2020 at 16:57
Originally posted by DamoXt7942 DamoXt7942 wrote:

Mine is Japanese of course, and I've learned English ... anyway my EngRish cannot work yet. Tongue

I love it when we can make fun of ourselves....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Woon Deadn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2020 at 16:16
I am from Ukraine, from its northern part. Quite like all Ukrainians who live in Ukraine I can easily speak Ukrainian and Russian. I can speak and write in English. Certainly, my vocabulary is not that large and I have frequent problems with the whole concept of articles. Neither Russian nor Ukrainian have a/an/the-alikes. 

I don't think I'd like to learn any other language apart from possibly Latin and Old Greek. Chinese and Japanese are not for my nerves. Even Italian or Spanish - I see no reason to learn them. Great languages indeed - but I personally see no reason to learn them. 

English, in my opinion, is definitely great for selling/purchasing, for marketing purposes. For writing sharp cute lines - be it Ian Anderson's poetry or my texts here. Nice and powerful language, usually laconic and not so hard to learn the basics of. I have no doubt that the full-power, full-scale English is very rich. Anyway, I prefer Russian and Ukrainian, the languages in which I can speak freely'n'fluently, I must admit.Tongue



Edited by Woon Deadn - October 15 2020 at 16:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2020 at 02:32
My native language is Dutch too, but it's evolution is on a relative standstill since I left the country almost 20 years ago (it is actually quite interesting to see the evolution of a language - and its use - over time). I'm fluent in French, English and German, although writing in German would come with many many mistakes. Some basic knowledge of Catalan - after two beers it can become a "decent" conversation... Not really speaking (would need more beer and a couple of days...) but reading and understanding relatively well Spanish, Italian and a tiny bit of Portuguese. I would really like to improve these languages to be able to have normal conversations without having to fall back to French or English.
Once one knows different languages from different linguistic families (Germanic, Latin,...) it becomes easier to understand (read) other languages from those families. As such, and thanks to my work in (film) archives and festivals, I discovered I can also read a bit of Romanian, Swedish and Norwegian - Danish is more of challenge - as long as I limit myself to newspapers or festival catalogues (and take my time; no way I would be able to read a novel...).
I have also learned to utter some polite words in Japanese (would be nice to learn that language too).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mirakaze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2020 at 00:28
My native language is Dutch, and I like to believe that I can communicate in English reasonably well. I used to be somewhat decent at German but it's gotten very rusty over the years (I can read German texts just fine but I can barely form coherent sentences myself. Es tut mir leid, daß ich dich enttäuscht habe, großer Bruder)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2020 at 22:02
Spanish. I've picked up a little bit here and there but never really got very far. I know enough to maybe barely get by if I was in Spain or something but then again maybe not. I know about maybe fifty words in Spanish. Other than English it's the language I know the most by far but that's not saying much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2020 at 20:02
Sign language...poorly. It's been a very long time.
I have but two real regrets in my life.
Not applying myself at a young age when I had the opportunity to learn music.
Not applying myself at an early age when I had the opportunity to learn French.

C'est la vie & que sera,sera (he sings in his most terrible Greg Lake/Doris Day voice)


Edited by JD - October 14 2020 at 20:02
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shadowyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2020 at 18:57
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

My mother tongue is Hungarian, which I can read and write though never having gone to any Hungarian school, French is my education tongue (bacc A), English by neighbourhood in Montreal, all by the age of 5. Then I learnt German every Saturday and Spanish every Sunday for 12 years! Italian and Portuguese came with high schooling in Switzerland. But I must state that there is no talent required, its is a huge misconception! Any child with a musical ear and /or an average IQ can learn up to 11 languages simultaneously , its the power of any young thirsty mind. By the time we reach our early 20s , it becomes harder to store all that information in accessible compartments. Teach your kids multiple tongues when they are toddlers, the brain will sponge it all up.  


Wow, impressive. Also your last sentence is correct. If you begin to learn a language after the age of 4 or 6 (I cannot exactly remember), it isn't becoming one of your "native languages"; so you're basically becoming a learner like a student. There are many ways of becoming a "native-like" speaker, but I think being a native and native-like has a subtle and profound difference.

My case could be strange. My mother is a retired English teacher and I began hearing English lessons inside her, while she was pregnant to me. I never studied English with mom but my English has always been noticeably better than most of my classmates. I wasn't a hardworking student and I wasn't getting the highest marks but I've always had the talent. Perhaps coupled with my musical ear and my singing experiences, my English always makes people surprised. Some are shocked that I've never been abroad, an English (I mean her nationality is English) headmistress of one of the most prominent private shcools in Turkey couldn't believe that I'm Turkish. I learned that she even asked one of my co-workers (teacher) if I had lied about being Turkish, haha. 

Anyway, I really want to learn Latin. I cannot envision myself speaking French, Arabic, Dutch or German. To my ears, they are not sonorous and they can even be disturbing. But who knows what the future brings...

Edited by Shadowyzard - October 14 2020 at 20:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2020 at 18:01
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:


I couldn"t help giggling about your Swiss german comment! While perfecting my Hoch Deutsch, I was given a taste of it in St-Gallen and Appenzell in the early 70s but what made me laugh even more was that those people could barely understand Berner Oberlander!LOL  

Yeah, I should have said more precisely that this was about Züritüütsch, the Swiss German they speak in Zuerich. I know people from St Gallen and Appenzell and understanding that stuff works OK but Berner Oberland is a different story indeed. I have heard that in the mountains it happens that people from one valley have a hard time to understand people from the next valley. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tszirmay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2020 at 17:45
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

I'm German and this is my native language. I lived in London for 14 years so I'm fine with English, but of course the more you know, the more you know your limits. I'm now living in Italy and my Italian is fluent, but still particularly regarding understanding what people speak or sing without concentrating a lot, writing without truck loads of mistakes, and getting the humour (most difficult thing in any language!) I need to improve a lot!
I have learnt French at some point, after I finished university as a hobby, but I don't have contact with people who speak French now, and my Italian has pretty much killed my active French. I can't make a French sentence anymore that doesn't come out at least half Italian. French understanding is also pretty bad, reading is still OK.

I am from Hamburg, northern Germany, but I have learnt to understand Swiss German (which is quite something for us flatlanders); I wish I'd have used my time in Switzerland to also learn to speak it - maybe half a year more and it could have worked. For those who don't know: Swiss German is at the same time some kind of German and quite different. People from the north of Germany don't usually understand it. Many Swiss people are not that keen on helping Germans to learn it, because I think they see it as something essential for their identity and it creates a border between them and the Germans that some of them cherish. I worked in Zuerich for two years and was lucky to meet a number of Swiss people who talked to me in Swiss German, although there wasn't much of an incentive to actively learn it because everybody would understand my "normal" German, and Zuerich is full of people who speak German but not Swiss German.
 

I couldn"t help giggling about your Swiss german comment! While perfecting my Hoch Deutsch, I was given a taste of it in St-Gallen and Appenzell in the early 70s but what made me laugh even more was that those people could barely understand Berner Oberlander!LOL  
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tszirmay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2020 at 17:38
My mother tongue is Hungarian, which I can read and write though never having gone to any Hungarian school, French is my education tongue (bacc A), English by neighbourhood in Montreal, all by the age of 5. Then I learnt German every Saturday and Spanish every Sunday for 12 years! Italian and Portuguese came with high schooling in Switzerland. But I must state that there is no talent required, its is a huge misconception! Any child with a musical ear and /or an average IQ can learn up to 11 languages simultaneously , its the power of any young thirsty mind. By the time we reach our early 20s , it becomes harder to store all that information in accessible compartments. Teach your kids multiple tongues when they are toddlers, the brain will sponge it all up.  
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2020 at 17:31
I'm German and this is my native language. I lived in London for 14 years so I'm fine with English, but of course the more you know, the more you know your limits. I'm now living in Italy and my Italian is fluent, but still particularly regarding understanding what people speak or sing without concentrating a lot, writing without truck loads of mistakes, and getting the humour (most difficult thing in any language!) I need to improve a lot!
I have learnt French at some point, after I finished university as a hobby, but I don't have contact with people who speak French now, and my Italian has pretty much killed my active French. I can't make a French sentence anymore that doesn't come out at least half Italian. French understanding is also pretty bad, reading is still OK.

I am from Hamburg, northern Germany, but I have learnt to understand Swiss German (which is quite something for us flatlanders); I wish I'd have used my time in Switzerland to also learn to speak it - maybe half a year more and it could have worked. For those who don't know: Swiss German is at the same time some kind of German and quite different. People from the north of Germany don't usually understand it. Many Swiss people are not that keen on helping Germans to learn it, because I think they see it as something essential for their identity and it creates a border between them and the Germans that some of them cherish. I worked in Zuerich for two years and was lucky to meet a number of Swiss people who talked to me in Swiss German, although there wasn't much of an incentive to actively learn it because everybody would understand my "normal" German, and Zuerich is full of people who speak German but not Swiss German.


Edited by Lewian - October 14 2020 at 17:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DamoXt7942 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2020 at 17:17
Mine is Japanese of course, and I've learned English ... anyway my EngRish cannot work yet. Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2020 at 07:25
Cool question for sure. 

My native tongue is Spanish, grew up speaking that till about 5 when I entered kindergarten then had to learn English. I read, write speak both fluently. I have dabbled in Portuguese with doing business in Brazil but I can't speak it anymore and only can read most of it that gets me the basic message. 
Took 3yrs French in HS but never caught on afterward, although it was easy, I can understand some Italian but no speaking it. If spoken slowly I can understand Catalan, but that one is difficult, most think Spanish and Catalan are related.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meltdowner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2020 at 07:08
Good topic and interesting opening post. That explains your broad taste in art.

Besides English, I speak both Portuguese and French natively as I was born in France but moved to Portugal at a young age. I tried to learn Italian for a while, because of listening to a lot of RPI, but after returning to France a few days last year I thought it would be better to improve my French. I've been consuming more books/movies/comedy in French to refresh and learn more vocabulary.
Besides that I think it's more important to work on my communication skills than to learn a new language, as it doesn't matter how many languages I know if I can't express myself in any of them Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2020 at 16:45
My native language is English (the American variety). I took French in high school and college and I'm not fluent in it. I work in a library and for many years had to translate and transliterate non-English texts for the online catalog just enough to assign subjects to them. I recall doing this for books in Spanish, French, Portuguese, Dutch, German, Danish, Welsh, Polish, Czech, Italian, Romanian, Greek, Russian, Ukrainian, Church Slavic, and Korean (Hangul characters only). Even had a book in the Alsatian dialect that looked like a hybrid of French and German. I can't fluently read or speak any of these languages, but I know enough to be able to get a rough idea of what they are about in a bibliographical sense.

I no longer work with books in this manner because I'm dealing more with metadata harvesting, batch processes with the online catalog, Wikidata, and metadata creation for books that are in the pre-publication phase.
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