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    Posted: January 26 2022 at 12:06
Originally posted by Rednight Rednight wrote:

It's surprising to see Dance on a Volcano placing so low. Also, Heathaze being ignored but Duke's Travels ending up on the list. I think most of Duke could have been phoned in by the band, including 'Travels.

It's not a best to worst list. All these songs won short rounds of people posting their favorite songs. 
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It's surprising to see Dance on a Volcano placing so low. Also, Heathaze being ignored but Duke's Travels ending up on the list. I think most of Duke could have been phoned in by the band, including 'Travels.
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:


great analysis although I still find it a bit saccharine for my taste. Carpet Crawlers has great imagery which makes it whole different ball game imo.

I like the 1999 version of Carpet Crawlers the most. Tongue
Now I go hide... LOL
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Originally posted by Philchem8 Philchem8 wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

^ the popularity of Ripples always surprises me as does the general ambivalence to ATTWT but hey ho it's still a great list!

Agree with you on ATTWT, I think it's a strong album, just not quite as strong as their previous 7 albums in my view. It sometimes gets a bad rap because it was a turning point towards more mainstream pop-rock, but it was still innovative in many ways and, despite the departure of Steve Hackett, it retained much of the essence of the Genesis sound while adapting it to more traditional song structures. Actually, it was Genesis's most immediately successful album commercially up to that time, but of course this was in large part due to Follow You, Follow Me.     
As for Ripples, I think its melodies, and particularly its chorus, appeal to the ears of a wide audience, beyond prog circles, so its allure really depends on how relevant melody is for you in how you listen to music, and how susceptible you are to this melody in particular. The accompanying gentle and dreamy guitar arpeggios  contribute nicely to the main melody sung with emotion by Phil Collins, making the whole particularly atmospheric and evocative (for many people at least). Meanwhile, the classically-driven keyboard instrumental, together with Hackett's weeping guitar notes, is very well woven within the song, making the track innovative enough to also appeal to prog fans, albeit it is not one of Genesis' most innovative songs overall. Together with The Cinema Show and Carpet Crawlers, I think Ripples is one of the songs from Genesis' repertoire that best manages to marry prog and pop sensibilities.             

great analysis although I still find it a bit saccharine for my taste. Carpet Crawlers has great imagery which makes it whole different ball game imo.
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

^ the popularity of Ripples always surprises me as does the general ambivalence to ATTWT but hey ho it's still a great list!

Agree with you on ATTWT, I think it's a strong album, just not quite as strong as their previous 7 albums in my view. It sometimes gets a bad rap because it was a turning point towards more mainstream pop-rock, but it was still innovative in many ways and, despite the departure of Steve Hackett, it retained much of the essence of the Genesis sound while adapting it to more traditional song structures. Actually, it was Genesis's most immediately successful album commercially up to that time, but of course this was in large part due to Follow You, Follow Me.     
As for Ripples, I think its melodies, and particularly its chorus, appeal to the ears of a wide audience, beyond prog circles, so its allure really depends on how relevant melody is for you in how you listen to music, and how susceptible you are to this melody in particular. The accompanying gentle and dreamy guitar arpeggios  contribute nicely to the main melody sung with emotion by Phil Collins, making the whole particularly atmospheric and evocative (for many people at least). Meanwhile, the classically-driven keyboard instrumental, together with Hackett's weeping guitar notes, is very well woven within the song, making the track innovative enough to also appeal to prog fans, albeit it is not one of Genesis' most innovative songs overall. Together with The Cinema Show and Carpet Crawlers, I think Ripples is one of the songs from Genesis' repertoire that best manages to marry prog and pop sensibilities.             


Edited by Philchem8 - January 24 2022 at 13:15
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^ the popularity of Ripples always surprises me as does the general ambivalence to ATTWT but hey ho it's still a great list! Also I've never seen Eleventh Earl Of Mar as a great prog track. Most of W&W is fractured and messy and feels like a break up album. If Hackett and Banks hadn't been such children at the time then it could have been a stellar album. (just my random thoughts on the matter)
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Good list indeed. All great classic Genesis tracks. As has been mentioned, there are a few surprises though, particularly the absence of Carpet Crawlers, and the high positions of Eleventh Earl Mar and Can Utility and the Coastliners. In the more recent thread of top 10 post-Gabriel Genesis songs, the 11th Earl is only in 8th place, behind One for the Vine, Dance on a Volcano, Ripples, Los Endos, Blood on the Rooftops, Entangled and Mad Man Moon. I wonder if it's different people voting or a question of methodology.
Also interesting to compare with Prog Magazine's top 10 Genesis songs voted by 40,000 readers (top 3 are the same):
1. Supper's Ready
2. Firth of Fifth
3. The Cinema Show
4. The Musical Box
5. Carpet Crawlers
6. Dancing with the Moonlit Knight
7. Watcher of the Skies
8. In the Cage
9. Ripples
10. Dance on a Volcano
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This awesome list deserves a poll.

It could be a single choice poll or a multiple choice (max 3 choices).

If you think it would be a good idea, I could do it. Tongue
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I suggest that the next project of this kind, no matter who leads it, should be placed in Prog Polls subforum, for two reasons:
1. Complexity and effort put in this far exceeds the nature of "Top 10s and Lists" - they are usually short-lived threads not requiring much attention; Prog Polls have more of that imo
2. Attendance is better :)
TOP20 Songs
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Rush
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I would love to do an ELP one but I think the participation would die very quickly. Tarkus is ELP's equivalent of Supper's Ready in terms of popularity so that would be obviously No 1 but after that would not be so clear. I'm also not sure whether Karn Evil 9 should be split into 3 tracks so that causes a bit of a headache. Another time maybe.

Roll with it!! I'm not the biggest ELP fan, I have several of their albums so would be interesting to see what songs I don't listen to that maybe I should......
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I would love to do an ELP one but I think the participation would die very quickly. Tarkus is ELP's equivalent of Supper's Ready in terms of popularity so that would be obviously No 1 but after that would not be so clear. I'm also not sure whether Karn Evil 9 should be split into 3 tracks so that causes a bit of a headache. Another time maybe.
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Originally posted by tempest_77 tempest_77 wrote:

YES! I am so glad Ripples ended up making the list—it's my favorite song on that album, and I've been voting for it since #12
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Yep great list indeed except for No 20.Wink
It proved to be a very divisive song. All in all, with that sort of following, it really deserved to be included :) 

Originally posted by tempest_77 tempest_77 wrote:

On a related note, I was surprised how much higher songs from W&W ranked compared to Trick of the Tail tracks—W&W holds spots #5, #12, and #13, while Trick of the Tail holds spots #16, #19, and #20. Once again, however, this does make sense based on the nature of both albums. It's much easier to define the three or four "best songs" on Wind & Wuthering, while A Trick of the Tail has one or two songs that tend to rate lower, but the "best songs" tend to be a matter of personal preference. This is reflected by the fact that every song off of A Trick of the Tail received at least one vote—the votes were too broadly spread across different songs to get any of them into the upper numbers, while Wind & Wuthering votes were heavily weighted towards "Eleventh Earl of Mar", followed by "One for the Vine" and "Blood on the Rooftops".
I agree completely! ATOTT is very solid throughout, most songs are ~6 mins long and competetive, while W&W is kinda defined by Earl and Vine. Kinda.

Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Sad about "Entangled" not making it, but SO GLAD "Blood on the Rooftops," "Stagnation," and "The Lamia" did!
I'm especially happy for The Lamia, still my favorite from Lamb, although I listened to it way too much, trying to imitate the solo and soak in the gothic, "cavern" feel... And Stagnation, well, it sits comfortably as my favorite Trespass track, wonder if it might change in the future.

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I would have loved something from ATTWT to have made the list , I did vote for Deep In The Motherlode at the back end , but no one else was interested. No great surprise I suppose although I will still maintain that album has at least half a dozen stellar Genesis tracks. I play it as much as anything else by Genesis but hey ho.
The way I see it, ATTW3 is very solid from Down and Out to Deep in the Motherlode, 6 songs streak with no clear-cut winner. Maybe Burning Rope? It mirrors A Trick of the Tail situation but is less popular. I believe we'd see some votes in #20-30 range, but likely very spread out. When it comes to personal opinion, it's closer to W&W than ATOTT - the latter being borderline masterpiece Star

Originally posted by tempest_77 tempest_77 wrote:

Do you think you'll do this again with a different band? Would you like to see the format catch on with other people doing it themselves with other bands?
I'd like to give it a rest for a while, but I don't rule out doing it again in the near future. It sits in the back of your head for weeks or months, it requires some regularity, but wrapping it up usually takes 20 mins a week, maybe twice a week, so it's like playing fantasy sports Cool

I'd need to think what band is suitable, we need a huge name so there is enough participants. I was pleased with 14-15 votes per thread, we usually hit that mark, but if there ever was less than 10 ballots, it'd probably die a natural death. So, if it takes GENESIS to have that number of votes, I'd never try it with a lesser band LOL
Jethro Tull and Yes are some of our favorite bands, but I'm not sure if suitable for TOP20 format (Yes would be boring we all know how it goes, JT has 80+ quality songs so it'd need fifty participants to get good numbers). Maybe Rush?

I wouldn't mind if someone did similar project with other prog band. Would definitely participate. Beer



Edited by thief - October 07 2020 at 01:30
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Genesis
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Yep great list indeed except for No 20.Wink

I would have loved something from ATTWT to have made the list , I did vote for Deep In The Motherlode at the back end , but no one else was interested. No great surprise I suppose although I will still maintain that album has at least half a dozen stellar Genesis tracks. I play it as much as anything else by Genesis but hey ho.

Thanks for putting the work in Thumbs Up
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that's an awesome list. Thumbs Up
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Sad about "Entangled" not making it, but SO GLAD "Blood on the Rooftops," "Stagnation," and "The Lamia" did!
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Nice job on this thief! It was a lot of fun! Beer
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YES! I am so glad Ripples ended up making the list—it's my favorite song on that album, and I've been voting for it since #12. This is a very excellent list, very interesting, but very excellent. Some of the things that I wasn't expecting:

Eleventh Earl of Mar in 5th place was pretty surprising; certainly deserving of it, but surprising. I feel like Wind & Wuthering tends to get shafted to the lower ranks in favor of Gabriel's stuff plus A Trick of the Tail.

On a related note, I was surprised how much higher songs from W&W ranked compared to Trick of the Tail tracks—W&W holds spots #5, #12, and #13, while Trick of the Tail holds spots #16, #19, and #20. Once again, however, this does make sense based on the nature of both albums. It's much easier to define the three or four "best songs" on Wind & Wuthering, while A Trick of the Tail has one or two songs that tend to rate lower, but the "best songs" tend to be a matter of personal preference. This is reflected by the fact that every song off of A Trick of the Tail received at least one vote—the votes were too broadly spread across different songs to get any of them into the upper numbers, while Wind & Wuthering votes were heavily weighted towards "Eleventh Earl of Mar", followed by "One for the Vine" and "Blood on the Rooftops".

This is definitely a very well-rounded list, though; there are only a couple songs that I would swap off in favor of other tracks. Was happy to be a part of it :).

Do you think you'll do this again with a different band? Would you like to see the format catch on with other people doing it themselves with other bands?


Edited by tempest_77 - October 06 2020 at 12:23
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Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

So you mean Ripples beat Entangled by .5 points?

Excellent poll....

Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Great job, Jozef! That was simple, easy, and both fun and frustrating. (So many GREAT songs didn't make it!)
Thanks!
Thanks for kind words Smile I was hoping the formula will catch on as it has "game elements", like a lick of tactics and group dynamics Wink And it was Mad Man Moon that won with Entangled by 0.5 points. That was the penultimate poll. In the final one, Ripples had a commanding lead over Entangled. You can click the links to see more detailed results for each poll.

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

I'm surprised Carpet Crawlers wasn't in the final Top 20 too, although I didn't get a mention in the intro, so maybe I didn't contribute enough votes.
I simply couldn't name all the contributors, I believe it was 40+ people involved at some point - no harm intended Embarrassed When it comes to The Carpet Crawlers, we barely managed to get two Lamb songs on the list and both are very progressive stuff. Rockier tunes didn't make it (Riding the Scree, Back in NYC, It), and my favorite softies also missed the cut (Anyway, Hairless Heart).

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

I think I could have comfortably guessed the top 4 but there are one or two surprises after that e.g. Can-Utility. I'm slightly gutted that Carpet Crawlers didn't make it, maybe I didn't vote enough.

TOP 4 is kinda predictable, but the latter half was shocking at times Tongue I think Can-Utility and the Coastliners is reasonably ranked now, personally I'd put it in #4-6 vicinity, maybe it has gotten more attention on the forums lately (Foxtrot popularity seems to be at an all-time high).

Originally posted by FatherChristmas FatherChristmas wrote:

Thanks a lot for putting the effort in, it must have been difficult doing it all in your free time.did at least get one Duke song in, so I'm happy! Wink
I knew you'll make it! Wink My prediction was #19 or so. It was a tall task - we're still missing some huge Gabriel-era classics, whole ATTW3 as well as blazing hot tracks from Trick. Any song between #16-20 could very well end up in late 20s in another poll.

Originally posted by Earl of Mar Earl of Mar wrote:

Well done, good fun.
I wish Unquiet slumbers/ in that quiet earth had made it, my fav genesis instrumental. Oh wel.
Gun to my head, it's my favorite part of Wind & Wuthering. My opinions on the rest are fluid, I'm still not sold on the "epics", but Slumbers/Earth duo always rocks my boat.
TOP20 Songs
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Rush
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Ripples just squeezed in the top 20.
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Well done, good fun.
I wish Unquiet slumbers/ in that quiet earth had made it, my fav genesis instrumental. Oh wel.
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