Why is my Neo-Prog topic so heckin' cringeee?

Frenetic Zetetic wrote: Logan wrote: I find this topic really cringe, and if there weren't various thoughtful responses I would lock it. I might edit the title and move this to the Genre Appreciation forum. If another admin chooses to lock it, then I wouldn't complain. SoftandWet, I do think you come up with too many topics, especially in The Prog Lounge, and wish you would post in more of other people's topics and search for relevant topics instead of coming up with lots of your own. That is a really trolling like title. We have a recent Neo-Prog appreciation topic, and had you brought up your issues in that topic in a respectful manner, while mentioning the qualities that you like in music, then I expect that people would have found albums that would appeal to you in the category, since it can be quite diverse (as are many categories here). Quite a few conflate certain Neo-Prog and Crossover ones and post 70s Symphonic Prog with Neo-Prog, but then those categories do cross over. Lots of albums in the Neo-Prog category could get various labels. I like Discipline, which used to be in Neo-Prog, and would call the first album at least Neo-Prog, and I call it other things. To some Neo-Prog has meant a diverse amount of albums, including ones such as Spock's Beard, Dream Theater The Flower Kings, and even The Mars Volta. Some think it just means new prog as in post classic era bands. To some it means any melodic symphonic rock, and melodic arena rock. To some it means Proggy AOR... (depending on what one means by AOR, AOR as in melodic rock in this case), or poppy Prog. I would call a lot of Neo-Prog Crossover Prog, in that it incorporates mainstream elements with Prog commonly, and Prog generally I could call crossover in a sense, in that it crosses genres. I've yet to see evidence this dude is trolling, simply for having an opinion outside the consensus here. Links? wiz_d_kidd wrote: One of the aspects of forums such as PA is that people like to share and express their common interests and tastes. There are many threads such as "Neo-Prog Appreciation!" where like-minded people get together to share what they like about neo prog.  In all fairness, then, people should be allowed to have "Neo-prog Sucks!" threads to share their dislike for the genre, and if you're one who happens to like neo prog, stay away from the thread! People with opposite viewpoints from yours should be allowed to express their opinions. There appears to be a hierarchy of touchy mods and senior members that react to particular topics, then act like the person that doesn't share their exact opinion is therefore trolling and baiting. This board has had sh*t for new activity in months, it's all polls and lists. I made a thread asking people to define a single word and it blew up over 6 pages in a day; that's how bored people are here.

Since I was referring to the title of this topic as being troll-like, I don't see why you would need links: "Why is Neo-Prog so heckin' cringeee". I'd say that the original post is troll-like as well if not actual trolling.

I said it is a trolling-like title, this depends on how one defines trolling, not that it is trolling. Perhaps I should have said that this may be construed as trolling. And I don't think the opinion is really that unusual, it's how it was expressed as "Why is Neo-Prog so heckin' cringeee". Of course a title like that is going to seem inflammatory and provoke negative reactions. To me tolling often tends to mean playing the fool to try to expose other's people's foolishness, and is often really quite clever, but this could easily be construed as an inflammatory title.   It doesn't seem at all constructive. It's fine to have an opinion, but then be careful to phrase it in a way as if you're not making an objective claim, and maybe go for some nuance.

Couple that "Why is so Neo_prog so feckin' cringey" with:

I'm losing it. I'm listening to Pendragon's Love Over Fear, what seems to be considered one of the best albums of the year so far, but oh my god (even though i love the cover) the songs are so cringe, it's even more cringey than Marilion. With everything that Neo-Prog rips the hell off such as Genesis and Gabriel's vibe or Jon Andersonish lyrics... I hate this genre! So smoothish and mellowish! And it's 4.27 on PA when Phideaux's Snowtorch is 4.20!!! Phideaux HELLA Snowtorch!!! 4.20!!!

And ask yourself what is the purpose? Getting it off one's chest? Looking for allies? To have a delightfully engaging conversation with others? Surely it's known that it might not be taken well at all by some. I like to say "Speak your mind but mind your speech" even though I do have a belief in the general principle of a right to offend and take offence (at the site that works within certain rules), which doesn't mean that I don't respect manners.

I have spoken with the poster (spoken at more like cause it never got a response), or tried to, about certain issues before, such as posting lots of topics in the Prog lounge, often misplaced, and perhaps I would have been more diplomatic had I had not had issue with the posting before.

Funny thing with being a moderator is that you are often derided when you take action and derided when you take none, or seemingly not enough. It's all part of the ride, I guess.

By the way, I noticed you other comment in the Rush thread, where was of course going for a bad joke, as I often do. Golden Age to Age of Steel, i.e. Caress of Steel and thought might as well deal with both in one shot.

Frenetic Zetetic wrote: Mods are gonna bust on someone for making a thread about why they don't like Neo-Prog, but more of these "list" threads aren't an issue? LOL.

Mod singular in this case. And when I posted that Rush joke there were three such threads. Had many threads been raised, and four or even three at once is more than I would like, I would have raised with that person, but I don't usually Rush into such things.

Had hoped it might just wither away and die on its own and I would close it now if it weren't for the continuing conversation (not us but others that posted after you). If you have concerns, please notify a mod by PM (just be sure to avoid the touchy ones if PMing). ;)

Thanks,
Greg

EDIT: Will close it after all.

Oh, one more thing. Do you remember this thread: I don't like Neo Prog, change my mind (CLICK) with the first post presenting the challenge (this is the whole post).

softandwet wrote: I am waiting for you

See how well that went with response to recommendations. If it had been a sincere desire to discover Neo-Prog that might appeal, that was an odd approach. It didn't list any of the bands/albums that had been tried, nor was the qualities of music that were liked and disliked mentioned. Instead it was phrased in a rather aggressive (or so it seems to me) challenging manner while offering nothing for people to base their recommendations or arguments on other than I don't like Neo-Prog, so try to change my mind. Weird. If that was what was being implied. I rather think "Bring it!" was the message -- fighting words rather than a sincere desire to be able to appreciate the category. It sounds confrontational, and do topics like these and expect confrontation. Now we have this thread which says:

softandwet wrote: I hate this genre!

Not much progression, and it seems to be a not very useful follow-up thread. Might have been better to bump the old thread and say something like,

"Thanks for trying to recommend music to me before, but after listening to these, I have found I think that this category is really not for me."   Or not bothered at all.
Sorry, but these approaches seem very juvenile to me.

In softandwet's "I don't like Neo-Prog" thread, which I thought very poorly approached, I wrote in response, which I think reasonably diplomatic:

Logan wrote: I rather liked an album included in the Neo-Prog category, Marc Ceccotti's Sometimes Around Saturn, but I'm not a fan of Neo-Prog. It is a divisive genre, but then so are favourites of mine such as RIO and Avant Prog, Krautrock, Kosmische generally, Indo-Prog/Raga Rock and Zeuhl. I don't expect people to like or try to like that which I like, but I am happy when I manage to recommend something that does appeal and am even happier when I get a recommendation that appeals. À chacun son goût. :) By the way, with the way that you phrased the topic, it can come across like you might not be the kind of person to give Neo-Prog recommendations a fair hearing. Like it's framed as a challenge to others, when I would hope that this is a sincere desire to challenge yourself, which is being approached with an open mind and ears, a booty ready to shake (if that's your thing), and with a positive attitude. Then maybe the recommendations will be more likely to work for you. I know I like to try to step out of my comfort zone now-and-then. I'm not the one to help, but I wish you all the best of discovery. EDIT: It would help if you would list, with some diversity, your favourite kinds of music/bands/albums. There is diversity in all of the categories here, and recommendations work best when tailored to a person's individual tastes. At least say something about the qualities of music that you like and don't like, otherwise it's going to be a crapshoot.

Edited by Logan - September 27 2020 at 04:27

I don't think neo-prog is meant to be ground breaking particularly. It always piggy backed on Genesis (and Yes to a lessor extent). Genesis represented a different branch of prog even in their hey-day of the Gabriel era adopting a more 'arty' approach. A lot of people relate to this and like it. In a way Neo is just a long term tribute to Genesis. The bands know what they're about and don't make any great claims in my experience. You are allowed to not like it.

Nogbad_The_Bad wrote: Hercules wrote: Well if you don't like it, don't listen to it, stop moaning about it and let those of us who think it's absolutely wonderful enjoy it in peace. Have to agree, it's best to stay out of these types of threads if this music isn't for you. There's plenty of broad topic threads where tastes can be expressed, this is just baiting.

I find this topic really cringe, and if there weren't various thoughtful responses I would lock it. I might edit the title and move this to the Genre Appreciation forum. If another admin chooses to lock it, then I wouldn't complain.

SoftandWet, I do think you come up with too many topics, especially in The Prog Lounge, and wish you would post in more of other people's topics and search for relevant topics instead of coming up with lots of your own. That is a really trolling like title. We have a recent Neo-Prog appreciation topic, and had you brought up your issues in that topic in a respectful manner, while mentioning the qualities that you like in music, then I expect that people would have found albums that would appeal to you in the category, since it can be quite diverse (as are many categories here).

Quite a few conflate certain Neo-Prog and Crossover ones and post 70s Symphonic Prog with Neo-Prog, but then those categories do cross over. Lots of albums in the Neo-Prog category could get various labels.

I like Discipline, which used to be in Neo-Prog, and would call the first album at least Neo-Prog, and I call it other things. To some Neo-Prog has meant a diverse amount of albums, including ones such as Spock's Beard, Dream Theater The Flower Kings, and even The Mars Volta. Some think it just means new prog as in post classic era bands. To some it means any melodic symphonic rock, and melodic arena rock. To some it means Proggy AOR... (depending on what one means by AOR, AOR as in melodic rock in this case), or poppy Prog.

I would call a lot of Neo-Prog Crossover Prog, in that it incorporates mainstream elements with Prog commonly, and Prog generally I could call crossover in a sense, in that it crosses genres.

it's not cringy at all.

^ Which raises the question: Do people conflate Crossover Prog and Neo-Prog?

wiz_d_kidd wrote: One of the aspects of forums such as PA is that people like to share and express their common interests and tastes. There are many threads such as "Neo-Prog Appreciation!" where like-minded people get together to share what they like about neo prog. In all fairness, then, people should be allowed to have "Neo-prog Sucks!" threads to share their dislike for the genre, and if you're one who happens to like neo prog, stay away from the thread! People with opposite viewpoints from yours should be allowed to express their opinions.

Every Neo-Prog band I have heard reminds of Genesis one way or another, even the ones I truly enjoy such as Fish-era Marillion and IQ. In general, though, I find the genre derivative albeit enjoyable for the most part. Never cared much for Pendragon myself, which is why I don't listen to them. They are a good band, though, and clearly have their fan base. I can only express my own opinion. Haven't heard Snowtorch but I have liked what little of Phideaux I have heard.

Yes, that pendragon album is overrated but The Road of Bones melts my damn face off every time. I think Fish era marillion is great as well, H era isn't for me though.