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Should sound quality determine reviews? |
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Catcher10 
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 Topic: Should sound quality determine reviews?Posted: April 07 2020 at 09:57 |
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Maybe this is lost in semantics, you say the SOURCE is the music and the RESULT is what, the final media like CD or vinyl or digital file? I think this is what you mean. If so, ok I agree..but, we never are exposed to the source as it was recorded. What is captured in the studio is almost very rarely what we hear on a final media in total. If you take an initial/new release on CD, released tomorrow and I go and buy it and you go and buy it....we are hearing the same thing, from a sound quality perspective assuming our system is comparable. Please I'm not talking about streaming it on my phone thru earbuds or my laptop on sh*ty speakers. So lets say that CD, the sound is muddy the vocals are buried the bass is thin and the dynamics/resolution are lost due to heavy compression, its brickwalled. How can you get around that and listen for quality in the Source, how can you get the full message of the music from the artist?? I struggle to think that most listeners will be able to, I'm not sure how you can. Give me the same Source and a different Result with a mix that brings out the slam of the music when needed, the subtleness to enhance an emotion and vocals that are more human like meaning soft and loud and not same levels, monotone. That Result will exude much more emotion from the music/Source than the first CD, you will hear it differently. This is why sound quality can play a huge part in how you connect to a recording.
Edited by Catcher10 - April 07 2020 at 10:00 |
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moshkito
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Posted: April 07 2020 at 08:06 |
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Hi, Not necessarily ... all the versions of Rite of Spring would be "different" .... NOT ... some have more accent on the left or the right, but the music SOURCE is still the same! Please do not confuse the SOURCE with the RESULT. Two very different things and many artists will talk about it ... the process causes changes, but that is not the recording process at all!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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moshkito
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Posted: April 07 2020 at 08:03 |
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Hi, I do not disagree with this necessarily, but allow me a second or two. In the 1960's I was in Brazil ... and we heard soccer games on the radio ... guess what? It didn't matter how it sounded and the signal going in or out ... we still heard it and celebrated a goal. The worst sounding thing, specially if the signal came from Sweden, or Germany, or a place a bit more far away from Brazil. You can't tell me that a "different mix" is going to make the goal and the game different for you and I! The other issue is the "separation" of instruments ... it depends on what you want the "effect" to be ... and no one complained when Bonzo put his drums downstairs! But somehow, now the drums and the bass have to be married at the umbilical cord and play together ... THEY DON'T ... except that "rock music has gotten lazy and continually records everything the same way ... specially after George Martin changed things up for Sgt Pepper's or one guy did it again for DSOTM ... which became the new "standard" ... and Roger did not get exactly recorded next to the drums ... he would have said ... I can't be heard! I'm worried that we are listening for something that is illusory at best, and completely ignore what the artist is doing or saying ... just because the mike is on the left and not on the right ... makes no difference if the artist knows what he/she says and does ... and I can't believe that we are so stuck on these recording bits and pieces ... they are "make up" or "rich man/woman's clothing" ... and have nothing to do with the voice ... if Mariah Carey can not sing (lately anyway!!!), no mike or studio can make her better ... same for any guitarist and what not out there ... Remember the source ... is the music ... not the recording! And this is specially worse when you have heard crappy mp3's all your life and all of a sudden are listening to a "remastered" CD ... wow ... the artist was hiding in a closet and not giving us anything ... that's so far out of reality it isn't funny!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Fysix
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Posted: April 07 2020 at 02:41 |
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To me, the sound quality and production are part of the overall work of art (= the recorded performance), and should therefore be considered in reviews as one of many facets. Of course quality does not necessarily mean highly perceivable production - a more raw sound, used with a purpose, can be appropriate and good. But even in this case, it's a significant part of the artwork.
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hellogoodbye
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Posted: April 07 2020 at 02:16 |
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It depends on your system and your ears. On my new hi-fi, only very few of my remastered CDs sound great. Too much bass. In many cases I prefer to play a AAD edition. For example, the Esoteric CDs of Wigwam's Fairyport and Being sound terrible. I need to find these ones on Love Records.
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iluvmarillion
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Posted: April 07 2020 at 01:02 |
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I totally agree with what you're saying. I've read some reviews of albums which criticize sound quality yet on my stereo system the sound quality is fine. There are some older albums which do suffer a bit from sound quality which to my ears improve when the bands have remixed those albums. Some people though even criticize the sound of those remixed albums which I can't understand. Muddy albums with poor separation and some instruments, say bass and drums, low in the mix, deserve some criticism, but not where the reviewer's stereo system is compromised.
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Posted: April 06 2020 at 20:09 |
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As long as something is recorded well enough for it to not be a distraction then I don't think the sound quality should be a be all end all for determining the quality of the music. Some stuff has a very underproduced feel. A good example for me is Mirage by Camel. I remember when first hearing it a long time ago thinking it was very underproduced sounding like it could have been made in someone's basement. Ultimately it's still a classic album(some might say a masterpiece)worthy of at least four maybe five stars on here. Of course some stuff is poorly recorded and a reviewers rating should reflect that hbut it depends on how the listener feels. It's a vey personal assessment. Some might feel the lack of perfect(or professional)sound quality adds to the mystic and vibe of the album where others might consider it annoying and feel it detracts from their enjoyment of it.
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - April 06 2020 at 20:10 |
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Catcher10
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Posted: April 06 2020 at 19:34 |
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^ we are on the same page in general.
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The Anders
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Posted: April 06 2020 at 12:24 |
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I wrote "good" in brackets on purpose, here meaning good, as in technically perfect with a crystal clear sound, no noise and so on. On the other hand that definition of good may not necessarily be good from an artistic point of view. A lot of 90's CD remasters of old albums did indeed suffer from that, especially those that were also remixed. For most part I prefer the original mix anyway. But actually I was thinking more of some new albums released during the 1990's.
Edited by The Anders - April 06 2020 at 12:25 |
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Catcher10
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Posted: April 06 2020 at 10:04 |
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Good points, not sure I understand what you mean by "too good". I assume it is the 90's CDs that were issued as remasters of 70-80s records. Those CDs are HORRIBLE!!! Because the remaster part is simply highly compressed, all tracks volumes were pushed to brickwall the sound and kill dynamics and resolution. But you are spot on, some noise is ok......100% of your day is filled with noise be it ambient or louder more in your face noise. So why do we insist our music be noise free?? Makes no sense... I would prefer a stellar production all the time, meaning mixing and mastering to be done properly, uninteresting music will always be that.
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Deadwing
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Posted: April 06 2020 at 09:45 |
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Yeah, I believe Baroness latest albums has dirty sound mixing on purpose, which TBH I don't enjoy in that case, but it can work well with others bands.
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Tapfret
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Posted: April 06 2020 at 08:59 |
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I'm with you here for the most part. Certain works of ambient and classical performances benefit from crystal clear recordings, but for rock and jazz sub-genres, your last line is true for me more often than not. I have a hard time with the big 3 Yes studio albums (TYA, F and CttE) because they just sound to sterile and boxy. Much prefer all of those tunes in their Yessongs form, which many people decry as noisy and unlistenable. I prefer my prog meat raw, which rules out much of what falls into the neo-prog sub-genre here. Its all too sterile for my tastes.
Indeed, I can get behind this as a thesis. There are amazing performances out there that were replicated in the infancy of recording media. While being a sound/engineering pioneer in his later career, most of Raymond Scott's recordings were very early in the game and notably lo-fi. But they are nonetheless breathtaking. And those signature Dustbowl tracks that Woody Guthrie recorded would be nowhere near as melancholy or true to the content if they were digitized, re-mastered and polished. As I have aged I have become more aware that artistic character can be destroyed when trying to pull art into our own chronological contexts rather than letting it be a part of its origin. Edited by Tapfret - April 06 2020 at 09:21 |
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The Anders
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Posted: April 06 2020 at 06:33 |
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A bad sound production can indeed be an issue that disturbs the listening experience, but on the other hand a stellar production can not save uninteresting music. It can also be a problem if the sound is too "good". This is an issue I have, especially with a lot of rock albums from the 90's where the sound is simply too clean. It means a loss in dynamics and makes the sound more "dead". I guess it was largely due to the transformation from analog to digital, as well as an increasing use of compression... All in all I prefer a certain amount of noise.
Edited by The Anders - April 06 2020 at 06:38 |
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Cristi
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Posted: April 06 2020 at 03:25 |
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pretty much
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Deadwing
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Posted: April 06 2020 at 03:18 |
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If it hurts your experience while listening to the album, definitely.
Edited by Deadwing - April 06 2020 at 03:19 |
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moshkito
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Posted: March 15 2020 at 18:45 |
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Hi, I have a problem with this ... many places on this earth the studios are not all Abbey Roads or some fancy dancy place in LA or NY, and you are not going to get the punctuation, the grammar, the spelling, or much of anything else that the really big places can give you , and make an ordinary band look way better than they really are. It's a two sided affair ... how would the lesser known band that will never even kiss the first step at Abbey Roads ... have a chance? This is a setup for the bands that have promotional back up to look and sound better, and the lesser known or heard bands ... TO GET FUDGING LOST ... music is not for them! And the business doesn't want them, because they want the "made" money! so the Rolling Stones can create all the music in the world, good or bad, because studio time for them is peanuts, but your band Catcher 10 will never ever even get a listen by anyone so it has a small chance to be heard and appreciated. We have to make sure this is fair and right ... not the rich get richer and the poor ... get children ... or get ....fudged! 
Hi, This is a false idea ... I have seen folks that were good and disdained the music business because of the travesty of feelings and complete lack of appreciation for great music and work ... and the reason? What you just said! 9 out of 10 times is more the audience leaving because they came to see _____________ and not this. I have another example ... the famous show at the Whiskey A GO GO had Babe Ruth and then Iggy and the Stooges ... and the audience literally booed Babe Ruth and they were excellent, tight and Janita Hahn made Iggy look stupid! But the audience was there for Iggy ... and he talks about that show on the Jarmusch special, though he doesn't mention Babe Ruth. He didn't mind the insanity, but even he says that it was getting over the top! The best one? Roy Harper saying he would not tour with PF ... what for? to get tomatoes thrown at my face? In LA, a while back, the PBS station had a technician in there named Mississipi Charles Bevel and he had quit the music business because of the complete lack of respect, attention and appreciation for anything except money. He had the most unbelievable voice I have EVER heard and his expression and use of his own poetry was ... something you could not teach your children or any students ... and he only did shows when he felt like it and played what he wanted, and did what he was good at ... you didn't even need a microphone to hear his voice, and that was how clean and clear it was ... and here we talk of high class crepes and baked alaskas for those who can afford it and ignore the fact that the standard and the design/definition of great music is not its "sound" ... but its SOURCE ... if it is all studio it won't be soon we're back to Monkees, and many other bands out there ... and those two guys that got totally killed because "it wasn't them" ... and what you are saying is that we should get them to the great places to create something that is not there. THAT is not to say that it couldn't be there or good enough to be there ... sometimes it happens, but you can look at Roy Harper and he doesn't need all that crap to do what he does ... he will do it in your backyard, or front door and make you feel ashamed you even said that he couldn't sound fine! The Mississipi Charles Bevel used to do a few places here and there with a guy named Chic Streetman, and I swear, I wish I could hear them now ... right now! Their guitar playing was phenomenal ... way up ... no amplification! And here we are saying that the best makes people better ... what crock, when there is nothing there! What do you think most of those top 10 girls and guys are all about?
Edited by moshkito - March 26 2020 at 08:47 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Catcher10
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Posted: March 15 2020 at 10:01 |
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Good way of putting this.....In the music realm what I find gets lost is the slam of a musical passage if the mix or mastering is subpar, as well quiet passages that should evoke emotion also may not exist because of loudness wars issues, everything is the same volume wise. Things like sustain of a note or cymbal crash or a simple hit where the note should carry on and give you that final feeling, but when not there just gives you that dry hump feeling at the end of the album or song. I think you can really miss what the artist was trying to convey emotionally, it's like an unfinished sentence, you get the idea but not the full feeling. The problem is if you are not aware of this on certain releases and search out the corrected reissues, you'll never know the difference.
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wiz_d_kidd
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Posted: March 15 2020 at 07:28 |
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Listening to an album with poor production and sound quality is like reading a book with poor punctuation, grammar, and spelling, or looking at a painting with unintentional splatter, drips, palm prints, and smears. If there was an artistic message, it gets lost amid the annoying artifacts. The quality of conveying the art is as important as the artistic statement being conveyed.
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moshkito
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Posted: March 15 2020 at 06:17 |
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Thank you!  Back in the good old days, there were at least 10 Pink Floyd bootlegs that were far better than the albums! The sound of it may have been a bit low or sometimes muddled, but if you listened to the music, it was superb and out of this world. IF we're talking "sound" as the complete "band" then it doesn't matter to me how it's done ... but if we're talking "sound" as something that we notice makes the band completely different and not be as good live, or as good in the studio ... maybe I'm silly, but that band isn't really that good and doesn't deserve the ratings at all! I would find it strange that a band would not know the difference of what we discuss here ... and a lot of details are picky, but I think they all make a difference. |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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richardh
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Posted: March 15 2020 at 02:57 |
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I really don't understand how musical and artistic value can be diminished. That would make virtually all live versions of tracks inferior. Don't get it. |
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moshkito wrote:
