Lyrical Concepts - Your favourite... - Progressive Rock Music Forum

Sean Trane wrote:

...

I know I shouldn't,, but can you expand, please?? Which tracks on TFC were meant for The Wall?

Hi,

C'mon Sean ... all the WW2 stuff in TFC was in the opening of THE WALL, in the preview of the film ... it was cut off later.

The story makes much more sense as a child of WW2 having these issues, than anything else, something that is tapped into TW ... and ends (sort of) with Vera Lynn ... which of course I'm not sure that most PF fans for this album have any idea who she is, or if she was real ...

Moshkito wrote:

Sean Trane wrote:

...
The really sad thing is that you can tell by this poll how much of TFTO people understand ... almost nothing! An inner SPIRITUAL trip is an INDIVIDUAL thing ... thus, it would not have a story to tell us, and TFTO does not either ... and guess what ... we don't like it because the lyrics don't tell us a stupid story ... and we only like stuff that treats us as children ... gawd ... Prog Archives should be passing out Pacifiers!

Duuuuuude, even Jon doesn't understand his own drivel.

Hi,

Incorrect ... he's not willing to discuss it anymore, because most folks do not know literature and even some history of the texts he came from. He knows damn well what it is all about, but talking to rock journalists and top ten fans that only want to hear "Roundabout" yet again, is a dead end ... You would GLADLY also make it look like you could hardly understand it, rather than trying to explain anything. I would, almost call all the lyrics in TFTO as a "prayer" and told him so ... he bowed! As did I!

Heck, Ian does this all the time ... it's more fun watching everyone laugh about nothing than nod ... like they have no idea what is being said!

Edited by moshkito - April 18 2020 at 02:10

Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com

I voted for Quadrophenia, but I didn't think the opposition was very tough.

Believe me Pope Paul, my toes are clean

richardh wrote:

I actually quite like the idea of putting your own meaning on the lyrics anyway. If it's inspiring and has that feel then can't do any harm. Also I would argue it's better to understand the music the way you want to then it's personal. Why should it matter if you don't 'get' what the writer is putting across as long as it's means something. With Jon I've always been happy to accept his cosmic 'gibberish' because I am sure there is something beyond what we see and regard as normal. I think even trying to nail it down is a massive mistake.

Absolutely. They're not laws or something unequivocal to have one clear meaning, but are wide ranging enough to encompass the range of human imagination and experience. Especially TFTO and APP, imvvvvho.

Sean Trane wrote:

...

Duuuuuude, even Jon doesn't understand his own drivel.

Hi,

Incorrect. I have had a couple of conversations with Jon about this ... and he said that it is sad that we don't read some of that old stuff, and get a feel for it. I asked if he felt that he helped put together a piece of music and lyrics, that did the same thing to your imagination when you read them ... yeah was the answer.

Nowadays, he is more vague about it, because there is nothing he can say that would help a lot of people understand it, specially when someone still makes jokes about the music ... which doesn't help at all! It IS funny, but all the same, I would think some respect for a piece of music you helped put together that is so loved today ... would be nice.

BTW ... it's also fine for him to think that ______________ when he is wanting to go solo and sell his won work ... so it can validate for the public its worthiness ... and sell a few more albums, of course!

Your choice!

That material and some of my interviews, will all be published after I have left this earth ... there are quite a few folks in it, and also includes a couple of dreams and visions. But, for me, a lot of this stuff validates the music we call "progressive" and "intelligent" and "far out" ... a lot more than just being a song. It's the sound and sense and sensibility of our generation ... and WE MADE A MARK artistically!

Edited by moshkito - April 18 2020 at 02:05

Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com

Originally posted by questionsneverknown

questionsneverknown wrote:

Nice poll idea.

Curious about how to answer.

Is this a matter of "I like the lyrics and I get what they're about" or "Hmmm, the lyrics and the concept of this album are deep, rich, and complex, and though I don't fully understand them in one go, I think if I spent some serious time looking into them, they may be more rewarding over time"? The latter is how I understand the idea that the lyrics are worthy of critical appraisal.

So, I like the concept and lyrics of Quadrophenia and The Wall, but I feel pretty clear about what they're about. Not sure what more analysis would give me.

I love Yes, but Anderson usually picked words for sound more than sense, so I'm not sure where to go with TFTO.

The Lamb and Passion Play, on the other hand, seem to me as though they have much more to yield despite how many times I've listened to them.

I don't know which songs Moshkito has in mind, nor do I know which ones Waters had intended for the album before they were discarded, but I do have my list of The Wall album leaving out the songs I don't like so much and adding the ones I like best from The Final Cut (as well as Wet Dream and Gilmour's debut, because if they hadn't gone to do those solo albums that music might just as well have ended up in The Wall... or at least that's supposed to have been one of the grudges of Waters with the rest of the band... but however those songs don't really have anything to do with the concept). However, I considered "When the Tigers Broke Free"... the most obvious one, of course, since that one appears on The Wall movie, and was added on a later reissue on The Final Cut. The Heroes Return (parts 1 AND 2 for me, though part 2 only appears on the single)... I think I read the "hero" from this song refers to the Teacher on The Wall. The Final Cut... now, this is sort of a stretch, and perhaps is not supposed to have anything to do with The Wall, but since Pink failed at his marriage, this song could actually go deeper on those events. Not Now John, I think it fits very nicely with songs such as Young Lust and What Shall we do Now? The Fletcher Memorial Home, I also think it goes deeper into the story of Pink and the Death of his father, as well as the ones responsible of the wars that took his life. Southampton Dock, well, of course when the soldiers come back and Pink's father isn't there, I think it fits nicely with (or instead of) Bring the Boys Back Home. And last, Two Suns in the Sunset... actually I guess this is the one that's got the less to do with The Wall, but I use it as the list closer instead of The Trial / Outside the Wall.

questionsneverknown wrote:

Nice poll idea.

Curious about how to answer.

Is this a matter of "I like the lyrics and I get what they're about" or "Hmmm, the lyrics and the concept of this album are deep, rich, and complex, and though I don't fully understand them in one go, I think if I spent some serious time looking into them, they may be more rewarding over time"? The latter is how I understand the idea that the lyrics are worthy of critical appraisal.

So, I like the concept and lyrics of Quadrophenia and The Wall, but I feel pretty clear about what they're about. Not sure what more analysis would give me.

I love Yes, but Anderson usually picked words for sound more than sense, so I'm not sure where to go with TFTO.

The Lamb and Passion Play, on the other hand, seem to me as though they have much more to yield despite how many times I've listened to them.

Rather than take an obvious poll idea and load it to make whatever act seem like the greatest thing (Dark Side) since greatest things is better than every other thing I wondered what would happen with the less obvious, if quite prevalent, but more demanding ideas. Just a few. I have got into them a bit and followed the circular spiritual search in TFTO - "it's in the lyrics, listen to the lyrics" - Vim Fuego, Bad News. Wink

(Jon doesn't want to get trapped in a media focus explaining old lyrical ideas). Anyway it begins right at the start and returns in it's overall theme at the end of ritual but not in a way that signals to punters that this is what is happening. There are no returning musical motifs and this very big change has probably hindered TFTO's message more than anything.

They'e all telling stories, some bizarre comedies like Lamb (I'd say to PG that Rael's bro should be Juan not John). There are stories and themes within - Pete's is great for that and Roger's paralleling rock ritual, political fascism and the uncaring nature of most around the individual also makes for interesting stuff.

Jethro Tull's is very mysterious - sort of where Tales might have gone had not enlightenment turned up. This is where the light goes out. Both of these have little in the way of actual songs so it's a big ask of a rock audience and imbuing rock into intellectual respect. Well some of it.

Anyway we've had plenty of time to listen, absorb and be informed and assess and all that sort of thing. Let's see what comes of that.

Nice poll idea.

Curious about how to answer.

Is this a matter of "I like the lyrics and I get what they're about" or "Hmmm, the lyrics and the concept of this album are deep, rich, and complex, and though I don't fully understand them in one go, I think if I spent some serious time looking into them, they may be more rewarding over time"? The latter is how I understand the idea that the lyrics are worthy of critical appraisal.

So, I like the concept and lyrics of Quadrophenia and The Wall, but I feel pretty clear about what they're about. Not sure what more analysis would give me.

I love Yes, but Anderson usually picked words for sound more than sense, so I'm not sure where to go with TFTO.

The Lamb and Passion Play, on the other hand, seem to me as though they have much more to yield despite how many times I've listened to them.

The damage that we do is just so powerfully strong we call it love

The damage that we do just goes on and on and on but not long enough.

--Robyn Hitchcock

essexboyinwales wrote:

The Wall, of these...

I think THE WALL would make better sense if the material that ended up in the next album was included in the original ... much of the story of which was already in the lyrics and in the original WALL, that had about 15 minutes taken out before the public release ... because it was too long, and essentially would probably have made the double album a triple ... which is death-cab for bands in the business!

Instead we got a mixed album that added a couple of I don't give a damn songs to it!

The really sad thing is that you can tell by this poll how much of TFTO people understand ... almost nothing! An inner SPIRITUAL trip is an INDIVIDUAL thing ... thus, it would not have a story to tell us, and TFTO does not either ... and guess what ... we don't like it because the lyrics don't tell us a stupid story ... and we only like stuff that treats us as children ... gawd ... Prog Archives should be passing out Pacifiers!

Edited by moshkito - June 27 2019 at 08:01

Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com

Quadrophenia closely followed by Topographic Oceans closely followed by The Wall

I voted Quadrophenia as the lyrical concept remains grounded to tell a story unambiguously that's more relatable than The Wall and the otherwise fantastic The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway.

Poll Question: If you had to critically appraise then which?
Poll Choice	Votes	Poll Statistics
Peter Gabriel (Genesis: Lamb Lies Down On Broadway)	15	[25.00%]
Roger Waters: (Pink Floyd - The Wall)	14	[23.33%]
Ian Anderson: (Jethro Tull - A Passion Play)	10	[16.67%]
Jon Anderson: (Yes - Tales From Topographic Oceans)	4	[6.67%]
Pete Townshend: (The Who - Quadrophenia)	14	[23.33%]
All - these are my favourite things and I can't decide	2	[3.33%]
None - words are not enough	1	[1.67%]
You can not vote in this poll

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