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Mozart or Shakespear
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Poll Question: Whom wrote/ composed the best fantasys
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7 [41.18%]
10 [58.82%]
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moshkito View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 26 2020 at 18:46
Originally posted by Icarium Icarium wrote:

...
The first reason to include Mozart and Shalespeare in a poll, is thay they are the first people i think of in their field of art. they are the posterboys of litterature and music. The aspiring geniouses whom dazzeld the audiences. Also they both produced works of Fantasy fiction in "The Magic Flute" and "Midsummer Nights Dream" and "the Tempest"

Hi,

There are times when I "question" the literacy that "became" known as SHAKESPEARE. The reason for saying that, and you can get a good picture of it in the film "SHAKESPEARE IN LOVE" is that if the crowds at the Globe were to be "seen" and "believed", I seriously doubt that many of folks in that audience would give a damn about the poetry unless it had rhymes that were bawdy and funny ... and were delivered as such. 

I think that the "updating" and "cleaning up" of Shakespeare was done to try and remember him as great, however, to someone who was drunk and in the grounds ... I can hear it now ... "rock'n'roll" ... loud and clear, and more than likely someone in the stage would throw something at that person, or go along with that loon. That, simply put, is not the "right" audience for a lot of his plays, although it should work for the comedies ... but I don't see HAMLET do well, unless the lighting was so low and the whole thing was eerie to the point of scaring folks ... just like the MACBETH witches could probably get some folks to pee in their pants!

MOZART ... is pretty much the same thing, and I think a lot of his material has also been cleaned up over the years. But he could not "have fun" with the Court for a long time and the film makes a big deal of something similar and likely to have happened, which would send many a composer to drink and every thing else, and Wolfgang's escape was the bars ... and there, he created a lot of his far out stuff. Funny thing is that few people know much about his compositions, and so many "concerts" or smaller pieces, which I think were his "studies" for use somewhere else.

It's weird that we picture them as GODS ... for me ... when I think the reality of "theater" at that time, was not the sumptuous high class thing that we think it was and must have been ... I really doubt that ... and it would suggest that things were changed and cleaned up.

Not a surprise though ... since we can see film and theater these days and how they "change" both and still make it appealing to any audience!
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Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
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How about comparing Shakespears Sister with Rock Me Amadeus by Falco. Smile
 
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Zappa or Socrates?
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"Oops..." Wink

That said, you can compare everything with anything, as long as you find the common denominator. For me it was hopping (and I confess, it's not very serious, although Shakespeare can hop too, especially in his comedies... "...I did it again").

Talking about music, Britney (I wanted to write BS, but that could be misread by some) at some point did mark pop music like Mozart did mark classical music (in a much more important way, definitely).
I agree with you about Mozart (and Shakespeare), but you understood that I am not a fan of Mozart's music...

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^ Mozart is the among the most prodigius people in music history, not saying Britney is bad either, she have some good songs. But it is totalyinsane to compare the two in terms of music.


The first reason to include Mozart and Shalespeare in a poll, is thay they are the first people i think of in their field of art. they are the posterboys of litterature and music. The aspiring geniouses whom dazzeld the audiences. Also they both produced works of Fantasy fiction in "The Magic Flute" and "Midsummer Nights Dream" and "the Tempest"
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suitkees View Drop Down
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Mozart is the Britney Spears of classical music: hopping around frantically. And although Britney has "spear" in her name, it would be William for me.

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Originally posted by The Anders The Anders wrote:

How do you compare a composer to a playwright?


One composes using words, and the other with notes. Both use forms of notation, both use form and structure, both deal with languages of a sort, both are creative and create art intended for audiences.... One can also compare through contrast. There are so many ways you could compare a composer of music to a composer of plays, both in looking for similarities and dissimilarities.   That said, they are different enough that choosing one over the other is not easy for me if comparing the art. Shakespeare has been more important to me I feel, but I love music by Mozart and inspired by Mozart.

Maybe you could compare the films Amadeus and Shakespeare in Love?    Then I would go with Mozart.

Edited by Logan - July 20 2020 at 17:37
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The Anders View Drop Down
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How do you compare a composer to a playwright?
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

I once went to an art gallery. That's the Mozart I've ever seen in one day. Smile

Hi,

And ... did she have arms, or not?

Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

As a writer, possibly Shakespear is better but... I'm not a fan of his.

Instead, I love Mozart, expecially his Requiem, so... Mozart.
...

Not surprising ... in a different language than English, Shakespeare is very tough and difficult. Even my dad translated a couple of plays into Portuguese, and I have to tell you that looking at these later, the feelings and the words, just do not match ... and it makes it very difficult to think that this or that is not as good. Same thing goes for me with Boccaccio and a couple of other Italian writers, which somehow in my reading of it, seems like something is missing and I know it is in the translation of it.

Thus Shakespeare would likely have less of an appeal in other countries, although for many actors and actresses, it still is ... the best, since the characterizations, in general, are very strong!

Mozart, for me, is easy ... if you know how to close your eyes and just flow with the music ... you don't even need to know the words on anything, since the music is very expressive. And so is Shakespeare. Try to get PROSPERO'S BOOKS, and then one day play the DVD and record on a DAW or Audacity, just the words ... and then on another empty night, just listen to the words by Sir John Gielgud ... it will change your opinion, some. AND, believe it or not, this has become one of my favorite ways to listen to a lot of things, instead of seeing it ... for example ... watching MARAT/SADE (Peter Brook's opus incredibilitus!!!) is difficult since they films around the play going on, which was OK for a while, but very confusing otherwise ... because all of a sudden some points of view seem, not quite right. BUT, if you just hear the dialogue, and not having your vision encumbered, this play takes on another MASSIVE DIMENTION ... and it is downright revolutionary, to the point that I want to direct one of these productions with skinheads and such, just to give you an idea! It is an incredible amount of dialogue, and a lot of it has been incorporated subtly in many songs since it was first opened in 1965 ... and it probably was one of the first "psychedelic" productions in London, the other having been the famous version of "MIDSUMMER NIGHT'S DREAM", which by all thoughts and ideas is a monster of a dope play! All this before Sgt. Pepper! 

But the words are what made these great, and this was/is the Shakespeare tradition that we love dearly were it not for that stupid Iambic Puta Meter that English Departments continuously think is what defines Shakespeare, which is not true ... the audiences of the Globe would not have known Iambic Pee from Iambic Poo and get a laugh from the gag ... 

In Mozart's case, it is not the words, it is the inflection and the language he created with instruments to define something new in music, that up until that time was metronomic and stupid and repetitious ... something that even a movie points out very strongly ... and all of a sudden, you have someone seeing something else with all these notes, creating new feelings you and I never considered ... in so many ways it is not really different than Shakespeare!


Edited by moshkito - July 20 2020 at 10:34
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Shadowyzard View Drop Down
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As I heard (from "probably" the most prominent Shakespeare expert in Turkey - one of my teachers) Shakespeare also uses MWS (or M.W.S.) as an abbreviation of his name, "M" is a seemingly a title. Master William Shakespeare is one probability, it can also be Mocker William Shakespeare, given his presumed temperament, hahah.

Edited by Shadowyzard - July 20 2020 at 08:46
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Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Perhaps I should point out that it's actually 

"ShakespearE" and not "Shakespear". 

Which sort of sets the tone for the level of informed debate. ;-)


Actually, there are several accepted spellings. And no one knows for sure which one is correct because in his lifetime he spelled it in various ways himself, if indeed he even existed.   

True....there are only 3 examples of his actual handwriting and in all 3 he himself spelled his name differently.
Go figure....
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I'll take Beethoven & Shakespeare. Ying Yang
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I once went to an art gallery. That's the Mozart I've ever seen in one day. Smile
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Theses two incredible iconic men are truly extremely different sprees playwright and a composer both are sheer genius within there genre of expertise...but for the poll my vote goes to Mozart
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Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Perhaps I should point out that it's actually 

"ShakespearE" and not "Shakespear". 

Which sort of sets the tone for the level of informed debate. ;-)


Actually, there are several accepted spellings. And no one knows for sure which one is correct because in his lifetime he spelled it in various ways himself, if indeed he even existed.   

Edited by LAM-SGC - February 10 2020 at 13:33
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Hi,

In this day and age, and I am a Directing Major in Theater, I did not think, and I am not sure that most people ever read the plays or actually listen to anything Mozart ... you just know that one is gonna get ... gawd ... too many lyrics and long winded! ... and the other ... gee can you shut that violin off? Because it ends up being "too much" and longer than 3 or 4 minutes ... excuse me ... longer than 6 or 7 minutes (we're progressive here!) ... and the appreciation for both kinda goes weird ... 

I prefer Willie, but I have no problems with the wording or the long this and that ... speaking it so you and I can relate to it (tell the English Dept to shove the Iambic Puta Meter where the sun don't shine!) and so many great actors in the past 50 years have done to make sure we hear and understand what it is about ... while listening to Mozart, after 5 different things, I can't help thinking that the rest is just stuff figuring out what all this music is about ... how different can I make it ... or what happens if I change this note! 

Willie is way more than that, although I am more of the opinion that too much of it has been "decomposed" so academics can create in their imagination that THE GLOBE was not a place where you and I went to get drunk and enjoy some bawdy stuff, and maybe pick up a girl, or vice versa! Willie, could not have been something for the upper class, that the audience of poor folks could not understand ... and all these English Departments saying talking like all these folks, half drunk many times were there for the poetry ... is just weird ... we don't do that here ... no one shows up for poetry ... it's way too weird and no one understands it or knows what it is about!

But I still like the wording better than the Mozart stuff!
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^Is Mozart really Mozard? Or Mozarella?
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Perhaps I should point out that it's actually 

"ShakespearE" and not "Shakespear". 

Which sort of sets the tone for the level of informed debate. ;-)

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I have read some Shakesbeer, but not knowing much about his life. Loved anyway those plays! Mozart is not my fav classical composer, but Don Giovanni & Requem are masterpieces! Also the movie from his life, how much it really has truth, was very entertaining. So it´s Mozart.
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Ralph Vaughan Williams and Sean O'Casey
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