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Bruce Springsteen's prog album
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    Posted: February 27 2024 at 16:42
Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

Resuming the speech: and so, many rock fans can not stand progressive, and many progressive fans can not stand rock (heartland rock, classic rock, roots rock). Because, essentially, they require different approaches to music (as well as the approach to jazz or classical music). But in any case, the compass, in my opinion, are the emotions that every music evokes, and the emotions are body and heart, more brain. Obviously, there are those who need a music that makes him move or relax, and then he will look for a more immediate, easier to assimilate music. And there are those on the contrary looking for, like the fans of the prog, something less immediate, more creative and elaborate that can access the emotions after having gratified the brain. Everyone is free to follow what he likes best. In any case, however, I think it is a shame to preclude a different approach to their own, as far as everyone has its limits (I really like the progressive, but also the roots rock, while I still can not like the real jazz ). Of the progressive I especially love artists of the golden age, Seeventies, and who have given rise to irregular forms of progressive and songwriting. In Italy, however, in the seventies the progressive was not an escape from reality, it did not have fable or mediocre themes, because it followed the student movement, it was very politicized. The Area, for example, were a militant group. And when the music touches very real individual or social themes, I find there a greater enjoyment (even if I do not disdain the fantasy themes, because it also takes imagination, to create myths).
(Big Bump, surprised this thread wasn't locked yet) 

Oh I grew up on all types of classic rock, Springsteen especially. Born to Run is a great album, no denying that. Wild and the Innocent and the E Street Shuffle might not be prog per-se, but it has a lot of proggy elements, highly recommend!


Edited by Frets N Worries - February 27 2024 at 16:43
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Excellent reading, Lorenzo -  hard to not agree with your considerations.
(the general and as well those pertaining to BS - it's really a good album, alright  !)
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Resuming the speech: and so, many rock fans can not stand progressive, and many progressive fans can not stand rock (heartland rock, classic rock, roots rock). Because, essentially, they require different approaches to music (as well as the approach to jazz or classical music). But in any case, the compass, in my opinion, are the emotions that every music evokes, and the emotions are body and heart, more brain. Obviously, there are those who need a music that makes him move or relax, and then he will look for a more immediate, easier to assimilate music. And there are those on the contrary looking for, like the fans of the prog, something less immediate, more creative and elaborate that can access the emotions after having gratified the brain. Everyone is free to follow what he likes best. In any case, however, I think it is a shame to preclude a different approach to their own, as far as everyone has its limits (I really like the progressive, but also the roots rock, while I still can not like the real jazz ). Of the progressive I especially love artists of the golden age, Seeventies, and who have given rise to irregular forms of progressive and songwriting. In Italy, however, in the seventies the progressive was not an escape from reality, it did not have fable or mediocre themes, because it followed the student movement, it was very politicized. The Area, for example, were a militant group. And when the music touches very real individual or social themes, I find there a greater enjoyment (even if I do not disdain the fantasy themes, because it also takes imagination, to create myths).

Edited by jamesbaldwin - November 24 2018 at 14:55
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... Moreover,
it is not enough to have a beautiful melody to be a great song, it must be sung and played with transport but with intimate transport, in a non-exhibited and coarse manner, as do many Italian melodic singers (I hate Sanremo festival), who sing a voice explained , without any inhibitory restraints, thus becoming too exhibitionists, not very authentic. Thus, the arrangement of the song, the modulation of the voice, or the way to interpret it determines a large part of its effect. 

For example, Maria Callas is considered one of the greatest soprano singers of lyrical music, but technically her surname often had imperfections, rough passages (Tebaldi, technically, was more gifted), yet Callas gives you, in terms of emotions, much more than Tibaldi, for the authentic and suffered participation it puts. 

The progressive does not like many because of these defects: sometimes the singer and the musicians are technically very gifted but 1) are lost in musical scores too elaborate, which on the whole leave cold 3) perform music in a didactic way, as a product of their musical ability and not as an expression of an emotional urgency. 

I recognize Springsteen authenticity. Certainly until Tunnel of Love (1987) everything he has published has been selected with extreme care (in fact the unpublished songs far exceed those that he published). Every song express exactly a passage of his soul, and even the sequence of any album is determinated by the mening of the text and the music of every song.
In The Wild the music is b*****d: it is a dirty mix of every sub-genre of popular music. It's music of the street, and the texts are short stories of street life. The arrangements are baroque, overflowing, they want to make these little stories of prostitutes and drug dealers epic, you feel that Springsteen wants to put into music the blues and hard rock jam of the late sixties, joining in many cases to the songs but, at the contrary to the blues, they do not always repeat the same rhythmic guitar tour, but they have changes of rhythm, atmosphere, sound, becoming small suites, as happened in the progressive of those years. Listen to Sandy's xylophone and voice interlude, the saxophone solo and then Kitty's Back keyboards, the Incident bass and voice interlude on 57th Street, or the jazzy incipit of piano of NeW York City Serenade... For me, they are little essays of street life with fusion of popular music in song with a lot of passages and structure borrowed from progressive.


Edited by jamesbaldwin - November 24 2018 at 14:50
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I respond to some scattered comments. I do not like Springsteen because it is of Italian origin. And, moreover, he does not come from a middle-class family: his father did not have a permanent job and was a drunkard. His mother had to make every effort to feed the children. His autobiography tells all this, and is a cross-section of the States. 

It is clear that it is not easy for those who grew up with the progressive to listen to Springsteen's music with pleasure, because they require a different kind of listening, and then everyone has their own tastes. The progressive pursues more of an intellectual pleasure, which needs time to be savored, putting together a wide range of musical finds. Rock music is more immediate, and requires more than anything else listening to the body, which is invited to let go (not just dance). 

The fact remains that music, in my opinion, is beautiful when it touches the strings of the heart, when it creates emotions, which can be strong and immediate, in the case of rock and melodic music, or even thin, finely chiselled, as in the case of better progressive. 

Ayway, the best music touch in sinergy heart and brain, deliver emotions and feelings.
And the emotions do not derive from how much change of rhythm a song has, how many chords it has, or the skill with which instruments are played, so a progressive song can have an exceptionally elaborate musical score and difficult to perform but be a song that does not give much on an emotional level, which is arid and and end in itself, which in short does not give pleasure to the ear (but that perhaps pleases progressive listeners because they listen to it by vivisecting it and enjoying it for her variety and difficulty). While a melodic rock song of two or three chords, strophe and refrain, repetitive, can present a beautiful melody, of those that seems to have already heard, and therefore be an unforgettable song, those that you listen to continuously without ever getting tired. Moreover....


Edited by jamesbaldwin - November 24 2018 at 14:49
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He is much loved in the States.....just about everyone I know in my circle of friends and family like his music...my brother was a big fan. My favorite by him is Born To Run though  the first two are also interesting.
Not sure if there is any 'prog' on the first two.....as always that's subjective.
His later albums have some nice tracks here and there but I never really followed him after the early albums.
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I'm really surprised reading your comments - always assumed BS was much loved in the States (The Boss, right?)
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Originally posted by Fischman Fischman wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

^ still waiting for Mellencamp's long rumored prog album haha.

respect for Springstein..though he loses Micky points for bringing Courtney Cox on stage and unleashed a plague on popular culture for a number of years...

but was always a Mellencamp guy. He was genuine heartland rock.. Springstein was something different. A product of cynical side of the music business


Actually, introducing us to Courtney was the closest thing Mr Mumbles ever did to anything worthwhile. With video, you can turn off the sount and at least enjoy the last 30 seconds.
Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:

are you into him because he's Italian American? lol

Just kidding I really dislike even though I'm Italian American too---but will check out the album. His whole trying to copy the wall of sound of Phil Specter is yeah ok--but you not black from the ghetto.
Not that I hate all of it---he has some good songs---I find his angst ridden blue color Jersey thing tiring --but may be because he grew up in a stable middle class family in New Jersey or Could be as a cynical New Yorker sort of find it all to be a tad put on.  

actually Fleish...  you are right and wrong...  it wasn't Courtney we should thank him for....  it was Little Stevie.

for yeah... for all that Jersey schtick...   everytime I cruise up the NJ Parkway with Raff to see our friends John and Dave up in Rutherford..   it ain't Springstein in my head.. nor Bon Jovi.. nor our dear friends in 3RDegree, The Tea Club, or Shadow Circus... it is this....HeartLOL
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^ funny.. you missed what some, including myself consider to be his single best song.

oh crazy Janey... singing those birthday songs while doing the horizontal bop on a matress of ol' mother earth.. umm hmm
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Many years ago I decided to buy a random album of the Bruce, and it was Greetings from Ashbury Park. I never reached the B side of the vynil.
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are you into him because he's Italian American? lol

Just kidding I really dislike even though I'm Italian American too---but will check out the album. His whole trying to copy the wall of sound of Phil Specter is yeah ok--but you not black from the ghetto.
Not that I hate all of it---he has some good songs---I find his angst ridden blue color Jersey thing tiring --but may be because he grew up in a stable middle class family in New Jersey or Could be as a cynical New Yorker sort of find it all to be a tad put on.  
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Springsteen's early music was definitely more complex than most of the top 40 of the time, or anytime, and those earlier, rougher albums by him were the best.  For that I have total respect for The Boss.  I also like his more stripped down, acoustic music too, but overall, he pays the bills with commercial music.  But, the excitement he brings to his shows and his songwriting ability is amazing and is why he is always relevant.

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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

I used to hate Springsteen until i discovered his early stuff which started with this album. So you think this is prog, huh? Not really. Keep in mind that jazz-rock doesn't necessarily mean proggy jazz-rock. There are many bands that have been labeled as such that don't make it onto to this site otherwise any rock band that adds a saxophone solo would be given the golden key to enter this prog kingdom. 

Heartland rock isn't my thing really mostly because i'm from that area originally but nevertheless i still have managed to find most Springsteen albums, some Bob Seger, John Cougar Mellencamp and Tom Petty in my collection more for a few select tracks rather than an album listening experience. This album is probablly the best of the lot though, The Wild, the Innocent & the E Street Shuffle

I agree with you. Is The Wild prog? Not really. In fact, in my short review, I wrote it is fusion of folk, blues, soul, texmex, rock with some passages very progressive. 
And then I wrote, in a comment: It is clear it is not progressive, but, are Steely Dan (jazz-rock/fusion) and Tim Buckley (prog folk) true prog? 
If you considere Steely Dan Jazz-rock-fusion, is it proggy jazz-rock in your opinion?
Hmmm I really dont know... Maybe a just a little...

If I took Kittys Back and New York City Serenade from The Wild, I'd find more prog passages than any song by Steely Dan. Am I wrong? 
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I've worn out 4 separate copies of " The Wild, The Innocent and the E Street Shuffle". Every song a jewel.  Wink    

Edited by omphaloskepsis - November 23 2018 at 09:59
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Springsteen put out some nicely eclectic-sounding stuff early in his career, but it's firmly Americana.

Now Santana? Caravanserai.
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Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

^ still waiting for Mellencamp's long rumored prog album haha.

respect for Springstein..though he loses Micky points for bringing Courtney Cox on stage and unleashed a plague on popular culture for a number of years...

but was always a Mellencamp guy. He was genuine heartland rock.. Springstein was something different. A product of cynical side of the music business


Actually, introducing us to Courtney was the closest thing Mr Mumbles ever did to anything worthwhile. With video, you can turn off the sount and at least enjoy the last 30 seconds.
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I used to hate Springsteen until i discovered his early stuff which started with this album. So you think this is prog, huh? Not really. Keep in mind that jazz-rock doesn't necessarily mean proggy jazz-rock. There are many bands that have been labeled as such that don't make it onto to this site otherwise any rock band that adds a saxophone solo would be given the golden key to enter this prog kingdom. 

Heartland rock isn't my thing really mostly because i'm from that area originally but nevertheless i still have managed to find most Springsteen albums, some Bob Seger, John Cougar Mellencamp and Tom Petty in my collection more for a few select tracks rather than an album listening experience. This album is probablly the best of the lot though, The Wild, the Innocent & the E Street Shuffle

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Surely BORN TO RUN is proggier still?
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Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

.... Springstein was something different. A product of cynical side of the music business


In fact, for almost twenty years (seventies and eighties) Springsteen has never produced discs for commercial purposes, but according to his tastes and his inspiration. Only when his feeling was in tune with that of the times has been very successful (The River, Born in the Usa). And after the success, out of prudence, out of fear of ending up Elvis, he always retired from the scene for a few years, then came back with acoustic folk albums completely alien to commercial music (Nebraska and Tunnel of Love).
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