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Is Prog Underrated? |
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Frenetic Zetetic 
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Joined: December 09 2017 Location: Now Status: Offline Points: 9233 |
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 Topic: Is Prog Underrated?Posted: April 20 2018 at 09:43 |
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QFT. Stellar post. Spot on
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Online Points: 17489 |
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Posted: April 20 2018 at 09:22 |
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Sadly ... a lot of the greatest music is "under" the radar ... in 2018, and even in many other years going back 500 years or more. It's hard for many listeners to get over their cultural bias (what they are "used" to) and then learn to hear/appreciate a different cultures styles and views, and then appreciate its art. Thus, a lot of art, music included, is under the radar, because our attention spans are so short, and in the case of America/England, so enamored and controlled by the corporate environment, that it becomes really difficult to not think that something that "supposedly" is invisible ... yeahhhhh like you and I ... (such BS!!!) ... is under the radar. No life, in this world is under the "radar". It's all about how much you "see" and "hear". And if you don't look for something different, I doubt you will find something else ... specially "under YOUR radar". As many psychics and psychologists always say, everything you need and want is right in front of you, if only you reached out to touch it ... and I ask all of us ... how far can you reach and touch and LISTEN ...
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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dr wu23
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Posted: April 18 2018 at 09:18 |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Online Points: 17489 |
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Posted: April 18 2018 at 08:16 |
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My thoughts on this are ... different. Having been through the early days of Space Pirate Radio, and Guy's weekly adventures on the radio, the thing that is very CLEAR on this thread is that some folks think that radio rules the airwaves, and radio has not "ruled" crap, for at least 40 years, even though they think that "BILLBOARDsheepdio" is the number that matters and tells you what is important. One of the oddest things in Guy's shows, was that in 1974, and at least 1982 (when I left Santa Barbara), Guy played things in their entirety, and you would hear Klaus Schulze (complete sides!), Tangerine Dream, Jean Michel Jarre ... you name it ... and the reaction was very interesting ... to many folks, the words were ... wow ... what is that? ... and it was not stated in a bad way! Every station always had the proverbial ash'hole that called in and asked for Led Zeppelin ... which they could hear on 90% of all the other stations, and let this one have something different to show for "music". The fact was, that even though some folks thought it was hip to make fun of it, and trash it, in the end, the pure vindication of the whole thing? ... there is very little music that he played, that is not remembered and is not subject to at least one or ten threads here on PA ... and if that is not the mark of "quality" and "ability", and "artistry", then, we do not have any kind of idea what we think should be considered or not as IMPORTANT to this conversation, and VALUABLE. The "sales" of LP's dropped, as things changed. And eventually changed in the 90's again, as CD's came to the fore. And now CD's will come down as downloads bring things home. The IMPORTANT thing to remember here is that your OWN band, can put up a download, and this takes the control away from a lot of companies. You, and BILLBOARD, have no idea, or concept, of how many downloads are being done. They "might" take their numbers from a Bandcamp, or Soundcrap, or whatever other places are about, which are owned by the same record companies and music companies btw, so them "telling you" that the sales are dipping is a bit misleading. What they are not telling you is that they started 30 years ago, the downloads of "singles", as in SONGS, and OF COURSE this hurt the sale of CD's, specially if the majority of the bands only had one or two cuts worth having ... you got both of those for a dollar each, and you saved 5 or 6 more for not getting the rest of the album. Who started that? ... the likes of Apple, and many other places ... and you are allowing this media BS to blame "you" for not buying the CD, or the whole album! THEY instituted the idea that the whole album was not worth it in the first place! So why would they now tell you that the CD/album sales are dropping? What do you expect? The sheep to go eat somewhere else? Well, they did ... this grass here is done, and gone! Attention spans are "shorter" only in that even the folks doing "shows" on the Internet are not capable, and do not have the music ability and desire, to play anything past 4 or 5 minutes, because they themselves are NOT good carriers of the "genes" of an art form. They are, in many ways, simply trying to get a job in a radio station or the like, that will pay them ... and show that they are such good programmers, by having 4 songs in a row about a teacher! One of them by the band BATUKADAKAKA from Uranus! It is important, that we understand the nature of the music, and the business surrounding it. The majority of the bands that we discuss, did not have one tenth the help that the top 5 bands here did, and for rights or wrongs, over or under rated ... it didn't matter ... they are still discussed and loved. And worse, so many of the "progressive" shows are not progressive at all, and some of these people need to be called on it, to stop using the word "progressive" when they are just playing their own top ten ... and that is not helping you understand the music, and get past the "song" concept, and arrive at what the meaning of the word "progressive" and "prog" is really all about! As GONG used to say, you can kill my body ... and you already know the rest of the lyrics ... and this has been the case for so much of this music. Just appreciate its beauty and personality. It is valuable and an outstanding helper and teacher if you so need one.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Frenetic Zetetic
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Joined: December 09 2017 Location: Now Status: Offline Points: 9233 |
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Posted: April 17 2018 at 11:00 |
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Seems fitting.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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SteveG
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Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20604 |
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Posted: April 17 2018 at 09:29 |
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^ Me too!
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miamiscot
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Posted: April 17 2018 at 08:32 |
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Prog is an under-the-radar genre in 2018.
I like it like that.
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moshkito
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Posted: April 16 2018 at 06:01 |
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This is not true at all ... if this was true, the "imports" thing would never have happened, and this Forum would never have existed since the music would not get any attention anyway! There is a blog, and a set of posts in this Board, about Space Pirate Radio ... Guy's blogs can be rather scary considering his fights with radio station idiots and morons, and people that just kiss up to bosses to get on the air, so they can .... get better dope (or women! Better yet ... girls!!!) IF you think that "progressive" and "prog" made it because it got on the air, you are not exactly correct. It might have from YES, JT, KC, GENESIS and PF, but in the end, this board is not about just 5 bands, and your argument is very naïve. You are not taking in consideration that FM radio at its early start, up until about 1978 or 1979, was fairly independent and was playing a lot more than you can possibly imagine, since you are not even willing to check the Space Pirate Radio thread, and find out that even in 1974, the number of "imports" and bands that were played in the show from all over the world (no American music was played in that specific show after the first few months!), is a list that is insane, and even if posted here, some of the folks would not believe it. You will never appreciate the heart ache and insults that Guy took, for playing Gentle Giant, Supertramp, Average White Band, Golden Earring, Focus and many other things, that every one thought was just American copy, and your comments just show, how little studying you did about that time and its music. Things like Nektar, did not get released here and have a couple of very strong tours because their music was not played. IT WAS. Just not in the station that you listen to which only has the same top ten every other week, and they all sound the same ... and you will NEVER hear anything of this stuff in there. Have you not figured that out yet? It's a shame, that in the end, the real problem is that so many here are not willing, capable, or ready to read a little, study a little, and find out a little, about so many artists and so much music. And then a loon like me posts something this long, and you are not man enough to read through it and figure out ... what is worth it or not, and ... wait a minute ... if no one played it ... HOW THE FUDGE DID THE MUSIC SURVIVE? It certainly was not because of your comments!  |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Frenetic Zetetic
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Joined: December 09 2017 Location: Now Status: Offline Points: 9233 |
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Posted: April 16 2018 at 02:00 |
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At this point, I'd have to say it's BOTH overrated and underrated.
It's overrated because fans of the genre will overstate aspects that others aren't interested in. It's underrated because music quality is subjective, and isn't the result of the metric of sales. The balance struck between these two positions is up to the individual. Also, balance doesn't make for good discussion, lol.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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kenethlevine
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Prog-Folk Team Joined: December 06 2006 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 8950 |
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Posted: April 15 2018 at 18:41 |
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streaming services make it hard to assess people's interest in music. I pay $10 a month for spotify and listen to hundreds of albums a year. I've discovered a lot of music this way, good bad or great, or at least been able to listen to music I read about here and elsewhere without spending extra. I do buy 2 or 3 CDs or DVDs a year, mostly crowdfunding for bands that need help financing the album up front
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Lewian
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Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14691 |
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Posted: April 15 2018 at 18:30 |
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I'd rather think that more people know how to get their stuff for free and they do it. That people are less interested in music in general is not what I observe. However attention spans get shorter so I'd think there may be less interest in music that takes time to develop. |
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Frenetic Zetetic
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Posted: April 15 2018 at 14:56 |
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This thread (especially the last few pages) are blowing my mind with amazing perspectives!
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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Tillerman88
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Posted: April 15 2018 at 10:33 |
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And frankly, what is music if not a travel without a defined destiny? I find damn samey those people who state their listening habits are like taking a 1st Class flight to Paris or New York or whatever! Give me an adorable horse and I sure have a much better 'traveling' experience all the way through! No matter whether it begins or ends simple and almost childish-like Terry Jacks' Seasons In The Sun, for instance. What most matters to me is the fun, the joy ... i.e. the disparity of feelings and emotions I have during that journey with my beloved (and irreplaceable) horse ;)
Edited by Tillerman88 - April 15 2018 at 10:35 |
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The overwhelming amount of information on a daily basis restrains people from rewinding the news record archives to refresh their memories...
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Tillerman88
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Posted: April 15 2018 at 10:21 |
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hmmmm.... while reading all this page I was never really willing to take the bassoon out of here haha, so I beg your pardon, but let's face it man.....good and bad music was always there (and will always be) since the advent of radio, what is good or bad is not having that variety you pointed above. And if there is someone to blame for not having it is only the listener, since is much more common today people limiting themselves to just having a simple, almost childish 'chicken and fries'; on the other hand, there are those who think that that 'meal' is .... ahemm... a CRIME against the 'Arts field' quality. I beg your pardon, but these people might be as BORING as those who are often found eating a sophisticated and glamorous dinner at the Hotel Meurice in the heart of Paris man......... Edited by Tillerman88 - April 15 2018 at 10:25 |
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The overwhelming amount of information on a daily basis restrains people from rewinding the news record archives to refresh their memories...
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micky
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Posted: April 15 2018 at 09:43 |
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agreed... I think it was dismissed out of hand unfairly in the past... but as we know the present in terms of music is much different than the past. there is something to the notion about people perhaps not being interested in music which surely will give Pedro misty eyes.. we touched on this a couple of weeks ago. Not only have CD sales been bottoming out.. but surprisingly so have digital sales.. it does seem that less people today are interested in music. Now my question was, and still is, whether those are strictly numbers reported by the big heavies? Do they reflect the small independents? I really don't know.. but again I digress. There might well be something to your point that people today don't care about music. That is a good topic in itself. And yet keeping this more specific to prog than music overall. There is a thriving underground scene which today's progressive rock plays a large part in, playing to not old farts at prog fests but playing to kids. Bands who by our estimations may be prog/progressive take your choice.. and might gladly take a festival slot at a prog fest...but don't identify themselves as such and play countless shows and gigs not to prog fans but music fans. It is that divergence that Jacob spoke of many years ago that likely needed to happen for todays progressive rock to survive.. quit trying to appeal to prog fans, mainly old folks stuck in the past.. but get out and appeal and play to the general music loving population who don't care what it is called. From what I've heard, talking to bands at various shows.. that is what they are doing and they are getting on remarkably well. Ive seen that sea change easily here at PA's. Back in the early days of the site we had newish band after band hounding us to be added to the database.. today... where is that... it ain't happening. Why? I've drawn my own opinions of that which many wouldn't like but I have strong belief they are dead on and say a lot of things about prog and its 'fans'. However the reality is there are two very distinct things at play here.. prog rock and progressive rock. Each has its own set of fans.. one group you see hanging out here.. the other.. rarely to ever.. and while there are some that like both, there is a very definite split between the two. anyhow.. my thoughts on that. Thanks again for the thoughts. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
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Posted: April 15 2018 at 08:17 |
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interesting.. thanks for the thoughts.
I wanna chew on that for a bit.. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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peart_lee_lifeson
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Posted: April 15 2018 at 08:13 |
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Actually, now that I think about it, I don't think prog is underrated by the general public. Well, perhaps in the past it was, but now and in the future I think it is simply under-explored or unexplored. The majority of people are simply not interested in music enough outside of what is playing on the radio. And yes, I'm generalizing, but I'm pretty sure it's quite true.
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PROG ON!!!
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micky
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Posted: April 15 2018 at 07:58 |
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agree completely with the 2nd part... but on the first part. Are you speaking of the past, the present, or in general. I'd agree that in the past it underrrated.. in that many tossed out the whole baby for a few bands shtting in the bath water which gave the whole genre a bad name.
Does that really persist today IYO. I don't think it does as I've alluded to in my posts.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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peart_lee_lifeson
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Posted: April 15 2018 at 07:43 |
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In a general sense and around the globe as a whole I will say yes, it is underrated. However, within the "prog community," I would actually say it is highly overrated. I say this as an almost 28 year old man who has gone from a rock/metal junkie to a "prog snob," to where I am at now, which is much more accepting in general of different styles of music, as long as it is quality music within that style. No matter what genre you look at, be it classical, jazz, rock/metal, pop, rap, country, prog, etc., there is bad music and there is good music. |
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PROG ON!!!
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micky
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Posted: April 15 2018 at 07:01 |
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hahaha... hmmm....seems I'll need to do some serious field investigations into this. You rule Ian...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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moshkito wrote: