Some roots of prog rock

Joren wrote: Possessed wrote: James Lee wrote: just wanted to make sure we all knew that the Mothers' concept album "Freak Out" was released in '66- I think that beats even "S.F. Sorrow" by a year.   I agree. Freak Out was released in 1966. One could make a case that it was the first progressive rock album with long tracks. Finally! I'm not the only one saying Freak Out! is the first prog record! (my review is here: http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_CD. asp?cd_id=5283)

Joren, I read your review and agree with your accessment of the album. This is also the very first Frank Zappa album that I ever heard! My brother borrowed the double vinyl record from a friend one day and played it for me. I should also point out that  Paul McCartney stated in his autobiography that he heard Freak Out from one of his avantgarde friends and it influenced  him to take more chances.

James Lee wrote: just wanted to make sure we all knew that the Mothers' concept album "Freak Out" was released in '66- I think that beats even "S.F. Sorrow" by a year.

I agree. Freak Out was released in 1966. One could make a case that it was the first progressive rock album with long tracks.

Jazz was the original Prog influence. And avant garde.

The prototype for prog came with The Tornadoes. They played spacey music in 1961! Psychedelia was a further foundation of prog. Especially Pink Floyd days with Syd Barret.

Early prog influence albums:

Telstar: The Sounds Of The Tornadoes

Freak Out!

Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band

The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn

The Velvet Underground & Nico

Ian Gillan's contribution to JCSS was outstanding. His rendition of Gethsemene went far beyond the call of duty, and gave him great credibility outwith his usual fanbase. As you say Dick, the album was originally a concept one, the stage show coming somewhat later. I do seem to remember "Joseph" was something of a flop when it was released, and only gained popularity once Webber & Rice had found fame. BTW, Gary Gilitter was also on JCSS, under his real name Paul Gadd. Now what ever happened to him?

Talking of concept albums, and bear with me here, the Bee Gees did a great concept album in the late 60's called "Odessa". It had some fine long tracks on it, and was the closest they ever got to prog. The track "Lamplight" was also the B side of the single "First of may", and was a superbly constructed mini suite. If only they had continued to follow that path, they would have gained a lot more credibility (and a lot less money of course!)

Good to see Keith West eventually finished his Opera, he does make Pink Floyd look prolific though.

The GFR track was two separate songs joined at the hip, "I'm Your captain/closer to home", running to about 10 minutes in total.

Gentlemen and ladies

Please remember I started with the premise about long hit singles and joe public developing a liking for them - and perhaps I side-tracked too much into albums with long tracks which got air play and folks dancing (e.g. played in the pre-Saturday Night Fever style discos).

Interesting points Dick, as you say "MacArthur Park" has many of the tenets for prog, yet would never be considered to be prog. Beggar's Opera covered the song on their "Pathfinder" album, and it certainly sounded progressive then, yet it wasn't that different to Richard Harris' version.

But again harping on my usual point, we wouldn't have called this prog then and much more likely we would have seen Richard Harris as somebody building on a reputation he gained through starring in the movie, Broadway (and London?) musical productions of Camelot. (It is modern operetta(?) - and hence bringing up Excerpts from a Teenage Opera has relevancies. And to answer one question: the whole did get released ~25 years after the singles hits; check out:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000006YZZ/qid=1089 191970/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_10_1/202-9767685-8400654

).Then add the Jim Webb element to the whole - a song composer who could just about nothing wrong in the mid 60's. A transatlantic singles hit would clearly demonstrate what could be done to the more adventurous and able pop/rock musicians -  if you could afford a session string orchestra OR an instrument that sounded the same!!!

All the examples from the mid 60's given by various correspondents to this discussion, illustrate what a dynamic, musically inventive period this was: cliches like "melting pot" immediately come to mind. However, as to having clear intentions of developing specific, new rock genres, I don't believe entered any minds at the time. Rather there was attitude of: let's experiment and see what happens because the music didn't have to be confined to 3 minutes, (the limit of the old 78 rpm shellac disc and seemingly the preferred maximum length for 45rpm discs by the record companies!).

Grand Funk Railroad (despite their name) didn't travel. I have their second live album (okay I confess, I have their first as well on vinyl and never played) and Closer To Home (aka Captain Of Your Ship?????) is the only track I play - a pity there is a fade out on the CD too. However, again I rather side tracked things  when my intention was to write specifically about mid 60's long singles. Of course I ended up listing and therefore encouraging other lists of tunes post-1968.

(Too many thoughts and a lack of clarity - but hindsight is a wonderful faculty)

threefates wrote: Okay so what year was In-A-Gadda-Divida....

'68. And it got played on the radio, didn't it? Not that I'd remember haha.