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Davesax1965 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Vinyl release
    Posted: January 09 2016 at 05:49
No problem, glad you semi-liked it. ;-)


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infocat View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2016 at 20:43
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

2830 views. Not one sign up. :-)

120 *complete* plays of the latest EP in one day. One sale, £5. I mean, when you think about it, to sit through a 31 minute album, you have to actually like it for that half hour. :-)

Moving swiftly on..... to something else, frankly. ;-)

I was one of those 120.  It's nice, but not enough that I'd buy it. Plus I only buy CDs.  Take that for what its worth...
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Belief is not Truth.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2016 at 04:09
It takes time and effort - but even with prog it is possible to break even. I know one band who tried many channels and broke even on their first two albums after releasing the third - it took almost 4 years. If you want a quick return on your $1500 it's a different story of course.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2016 at 11:41
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Yes, of course and fair enough. ;-) No, the release has been mentioned elsewhere with higher rates of success, but, to be honest, Angelo, you have to be fairly sure of a return before throwing $1500 down a potential drain. ;-)

Obverse side of the coin is that I can just do more commercially lucrative music. That would be the "business decision". Following that logic, very few people will keep doing prog rock...... 

1500 down a drain? I usually throw away 8 to 10 grand. Why would you do music expecting to get paid? Music has no value.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2016 at 07:59
Yes, of course and fair enough. ;-) No, the release has been mentioned elsewhere with higher rates of success, but, to be honest, Angelo, you have to be fairly sure of a return before throwing $1500 down a potential drain. ;-)

Obverse side of the coin is that I can just do more commercially lucrative music. That would be the "business decision". Following that logic, very few people will keep doing prog rock...... 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2016 at 07:04
It's not my kind of music, sorry. Apart from that, re our other discussion, using just this thread as a channel to promote the release seems a bit limited. Remember what I wrote about 'the full package'? Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2016 at 06:02
2830 views. Not one sign up. :-)

120 *complete* plays of the latest EP in one day. One sale, £5. I mean, when you think about it, to sit through a 31 minute album, you have to actually like it for that half hour. :-)

Moving swiftly on..... to something else, frankly. ;-)


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2015 at 10:55
Originally posted by timbo timbo wrote:

No, the answer is play what music you think is good, and that you enjoy playing.

Just don't expect to make money from it. Even in the 70s, that was like winning the lottery. Now it's harder still.

Do it for yourself.


Hi Timbo - it's even worse than that. Musicians who now "do music for themselves" are rewarded by the "fans" just, frankly, ripping them off. If I release something for free via any site - including Prog Archives, there are several hundred downloads. Charge someone even $1, the audience drops to zero. Sometimes, it's not necessarily the format, it's also the fact that you've asked someone for money. ;-)

If you consider that we'd charge £20 a year membership, and - signing up for vinyl, you'd get free membership, all the back catalogue AND a very limited vinyl release ("eBay special") then effectively.... "free limited edition album". But people don't see that. They see "Oh, got to pay money for that." 

They probably assume artists will still make money and will still keep producing music, some of which they'll get for free. This is pretty much like global warming - we all think it'll be fine and we'll never get to some kind of hideous disaster. 

Ah ah, no. ;-) 

OK, let's change the format then. 

Starting again - 

We will release a limited edition CD, this will never be issued elsewhere - the charge is £20, there will be 100 copies printed AFTER 50 people sign up. This is a pre-order. Your £20 will also gain you free VIP access to the website and a digital download of two albums, an LP and several singles PLUS 10% off our merchandise. 

Anyone signing up ? ;-)



Edited by Davesax1965 - December 04 2015 at 10:58

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Davesax1965 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2015 at 10:50
$1 each is for something in a card wallet which has produced in massive volumes. 

The card wallet price here for a low run CD - 100 units - is £238. / $363. 
Then add on shipping costs. 
Then add on profit. If you're not doing this for $0. 

And I don't think I'd like to sign up for a cheaply printed CD in a rotten card wallet. ;-)

So, to get economies of scale, you have to shift 500 - 1000 to get your fans a decent price. 

That ain't going to happen here with a pre-order. :-)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2015 at 10:27
Format means nothing to me when I think of good music.....All a format does is give me choices on how to enjoy the music. Sure some formats are more engaging than others, vinyl being the main one.....But if all we are talking about is music then does not matter. Look at how many people listen to music on youtube at very low bit rates, terrible sound quality, but they listen.

I always understood a CD release is about as cheap as you can get...I mean those silver discs cost what $1.00ea?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2015 at 09:37
No, the answer is play what music you think is good, and that you enjoy playing.

Just don't expect to make money from it. Even in the 70s, that was like winning the lottery. Now it's harder still.

Do it for yourself.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2015 at 03:20
Thanks for the replies, folks. Project canned, of course. ;-)
A CD release would require a larger amount of people to sign up. I'm in sales and marketing, and my experience of these things is that people say "yes" and then don't buy. 

Generally, the tactic then should be to assess whether or not the fundamental idea is sound, and it ain't. Our stuff is a subgenre of a subgenre, vinyl is popular with some forms of music, but this isn't one of them. 

The answer is, very simply, "play different music." ;-)


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2015 at 15:33
Originally posted by timbo timbo wrote:

I did have a listen, Dave.
Sorry, it's not something I would normally listen too. I like the sax on Meditation of the Blue Serpent though.

I've seen your other posts on the difficulty of making anything at all out of music, and I do sympathise. I thought the idea might have been good to get people involved up front, but obviously it's not easy to get people to sign up.

To tell the truth though, I don't want vinyl these days. I've actually been listening to a lot of vinyl lately, but mainly connected with my "project" to digitise them all so I can get rid of them all. They take up too much room (according to my wife, at least). I only buy downloads now, I've got past the need for a physical copy. Sad but true...

In any case, I'm not impressed with the quality - even with a good turntable and a new cartridge. Probably most of what I bought was the cheap stuff, back when I was a student, but it's quite crackly even after cleaning carefully (I bought a Knosti cleaning machine specially for the project.

It's been quite an adventure though, rediscovering ELP after at least 20 years. I'm up to G now, just completed Gabriel
With a bit of luck I can spin the project out another year and keep my collection a while longer

I'll take the vinyl, don't throw it out!! Cry

All my vinyl is very close to digital quiet, unless I buy a used copy and the owner did not take care of it, then it is noisy...but that is ok in most cases. For rock based music it really does not matter....I have always said if I was a classical music lover I would be 100% digital and probably all hi-resolution DSD quality.

Although I have yet to attend any live music event and only heard music Wink 
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timbo View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2015 at 14:58
I did have a listen, Dave.
Sorry, it's not something I would normally listen too. I like the sax on Meditation of the Blue Serpent though.

I've seen your other posts on the difficulty of making anything at all out of music, and I do sympathise. I thought the idea might have been good to get people involved up front, but obviously it's not easy to get people to sign up.

To tell the truth though, I don't want vinyl these days. I've actually been listening to a lot of vinyl lately, but mainly connected with my "project" to digitise them all so I can get rid of them all. They take up too much room (according to my wife, at least). I only buy downloads now, I've got past the need for a physical copy. Sad but true...

In any case, I'm not impressed with the quality - even with a good turntable and a new cartridge. Probably most of what I bought was the cheap stuff, back when I was a student, but it's quite crackly even after cleaning carefully (I bought a Knosti cleaning machine specially for the project.

It's been quite an adventure though, rediscovering ELP after at least 20 years. I'm up to G now, just completed Gabriel
With a bit of luck I can spin the project out another year and keep my collection a while longer
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Catcher10 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2015 at 12:13
It's not music I listen to, I took a listen on Bandcamp yesterday. You know me...vinyl or nothing LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2015 at 12:01
^ I saw this thread, but I told him once I would prefer CD, it's a genre I generally prefer on CD over vinyl.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2015 at 11:26
Small runs of vinyl sell very well, as usually they are by niche bands/groups, eclectic type music very specific. Doom/goth/dark/death metal sells very good in vinyl and they issue a lot of special runs of vinyl like colored, splatter, translucent, very neat stuff for sure. Not my cup of tea musically but the issues are very eye appealing.

Davesax, some of your albums have been reviewed by Meltdowner (Sam) who is a big contributor to the Vinyl thread...I bet he would be interested in your idea of vinyl.....but since you choose not to post it there, I guess he won't know.

There are many, many threads on PA I never click on.....I bet most members stick to 3-4 threads regularly. 
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Davesax1965 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2015 at 10:18
1029 views. :-)

Either Progarchives has a lot of web spiders, or....... ;-)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2015 at 08:12
I should think you're probably right, Chopper. Especially in a nice musical genre where a lot of listeners... have a few more years under their belts. 

Vinyl sells quite well for some musical genres where it's seen to be hip and metrosexual. Hm. Let's see. 50. Bald. Goatee beard. Not me, then. ;-)


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2015 at 07:59
Maybe there's not as much demand for vinyl as people think? Personally I haven't played any for years.
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