How is this Prog?

dr wu23 wrote: SteveG wrote: ^Never mind. They are listed in Proto Prog.   Anything that's not really prog but still well liked by the collabs ends up in either proto prog or prog related.

I openly admit that my position regarding "misuse" of the word "prog" is a minority one here (it isn't at the progressive rock round table here in this city).  But I have realized something.  There is another thing that has been bugging me about current prog: its stagnation.  There hasn't been much new stuff which went beyond what has been there in the mid-90s.  Dream Theater and Marillion, for instance, more or less do the same things now they did 20 years ago.  Now, both the "misuse of the word" and the "stagnation" set in at about the same time, namely in the mid-90s!  So it looks as if they are two sides of the same coin: it is just that prog has advanced past the point to which I was ready to follow back then.  I am thus a similar old fogey as those who are into 70s symph-prog and can't chew neo-prog, only with a much later cut-off point, in a way.  Still, I feel that what happened at that cut-off point in the mid-90s was so tremendous that I still have a hard time wrapping my head around it, but well, things change.



Edited by WeepingElf - August 14 2015 at 14:41

SteveG wrote: ^Never mind. They are listed in Proto Prog.

SteveG wrote:  Klaatu!  Nah-nah!  Nah-nah!  They're listed in PA and you can't do anything about it. So there.

What was that!?

Klaatu. Too mambily-pambily saccharine for my liking.

Guldbamsen wrote: twalsh wrote: WeepingElf wrote: OK.  You asked for it, so don't complain.  As you certainly know from some other threads (most notably the Wider and narrower senses thread), there are several things which are often considered prog where I ask, How is this prog?  Tool and their ilk (I haven't even found a decent term for that subgenre, everyone just calls it, IMHO utterly inappropriately, "prog metal", as if Dream Theater and Queensrÿche - the latter are IMHO borderline prog, BTW - did the same thing), tech metal (which essentially breaks down the prog formula to mere instrumental acrobatics, leaving the cynic-nihilistic outlook of extreme metal untouched), djent (more of the same) and math rock (idle play with numbers, skilful but say-nothing).  Also, the various stripes of psychedelic and stoner rock (drawing out songs under the influence of psychedelic drugs is not the same as prog composition!). Cynic Tessaract Anathema Seriously, check out their lyrics. The umpteenth time I've seen your description of 'cynic-nihilistic outlook' in the last month and it's getting irritating. I think you're overstating the point, as there are a lot of exceptions. Then ignore him;) If there's one thing this site has taught me then it's the fact that you can't change how people hear or see things in a music related discussion. Some don't believe metal has anything to do with prog (I'm not saying WE believes that - I seem to remember him thinking that DT were prog) while others feel The Grateful Dead are prog. Well people can believe what they chose - just like our collaborators can. It's just a matter of weeding out the nonsense (to you that is) from the gold....or merely accept that we hear things differently.

^The Who are not included here? Wtf?

Edited by SteveG - August 13 2015 at 10:41

twalsh wrote: WeepingElf wrote: OK.  You asked for it, so don't complain.  As you certainly know from some other threads (most notably the Wider and narrower senses thread), there are several things which are often considered prog where I ask, How is this prog?  Tool and their ilk (I haven't even found a decent term for that subgenre, everyone just calls it, IMHO utterly inappropriately, "prog metal", as if Dream Theater and Queensrÿche - the latter are IMHO borderline prog, BTW - did the same thing), tech metal (which essentially breaks down the prog formula to mere instrumental acrobatics, leaving the cynic-nihilistic outlook of extreme metal untouched), djent (more of the same) and math rock (idle play with numbers, skilful but say-nothing).  Also, the various stripes of psychedelic and stoner rock (drawing out songs under the influence of psychedelic drugs is not the same as prog composition!). Cynic Tessaract Anathema Seriously, check out their lyrics. The umpteenth time I've seen your description of 'cynic-nihilistic outlook' in the last month and it's getting irritating. I think you're overstating the point, as there are a lot of exceptions.

Then ignore him;)
If there's one thing this site has taught me then it's the fact that you can't change how people hear or see things in a music related discussion. Some don't believe metal has anything to do with prog (I'm not saying WE believes that - I seem to remember him thinking that DT were prog) while others feel The Grateful Dead are prog.
Well people can believe what they chose - just like our collaborators can.
It's just a matter of weeding out the nonsense (to you that is) from the gold....or merely accept that we hear things differently.



Edited by Guldbamsen - August 13 2015 at 10:05

rushfan4 wrote: Sabbath are included in Prog Related.

Whoops! I missed that, thanks RF4.

WeepingElf wrote: OK.  You asked for it, so don't complain.  As you certainly know from some other threads (most notably the Wider and narrower senses thread), there are several things which are often considered prog where I ask, How is this prog?  Tool and their ilk (I haven't even found a decent term for that subgenre, everyone just calls it, IMHO utterly inappropriately, "prog metal", as if Dream Theater and Queensrÿche - the latter are IMHO borderline prog, BTW - did the same thing), tech metal (which essentially breaks down the prog formula to mere instrumental acrobatics, leaving the cynic-nihilistic outlook of extreme metal untouched), djent (more of the same) and math rock (idle play with numbers, skilful but say-nothing).  Also, the various stripes of psychedelic and stoner rock (drawing out songs under the influence of psychedelic drugs is not the same as prog composition!).

No one is complaining Weeping Elf because you're in the minority. Why do you suppose that is? Are you missing something in the lyrics as Twalsh suggested? Or possibly become too close minded because of your dislike of metal that causes you miss the progressive nature of tech? Don't complain, I'm just asking.