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Topic ClosedLima Regional Final: Genesis v. Jethro Toe
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Poll Question: Who is your band
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charles_ryder View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 10 2015 at 13:45
Genesis or Jethro Tull? It's difficult choise to me. Insoluble choise. I love both of them.
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Points: 12732 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2015 at 22:12
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by BarryGlibb BarryGlibb wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by akamaisondufromage akamaisondufromage wrote:


I do feel that this would have been a much closer contest if Genesis hadn't been up against Jethro Toe but, rather the slightly more popular Jethro Tull had been thrown into the mix! I've never had much time for Toe. 


hah

Tull... lost to a far superior group in the first round LOLAngry

DULL.. lost to a far superior group in the Sweet 16. LOLAngry


Toe lost in the great 8 to a band whose prog phase was even more dull than theirs was...LOLLOLClap




I give up!

 
Don't give up, Barry. We knew Tull would not beat the intractable fanboys of Genesis, even if Tull sold far more albums than Genesis -- until, of course, Genesis completely sold out and did lame ballads.
 
My suggestion? Do what I am going to do. I am henceforth voting for Pink Floyd against Yes, Crimson and Genesis. If all the Tull votes went to Floyd and all the allegedly "bestest" prog bands lost, it would upset the entire PA equilibrium. Posters might start committing suicide, or at least soil their shorts or water their keyboards with unnumbered tears due to the infamy! The blasphemy! The heresy! Wink


Don't worry, Pink Floyd can hold their own very well against any of the bands on this site. They can beat just about anyone, or at least give a very good fight, Gilmour can have a very good round against any guitar player, even beat most of them (including Fripp himself), and I just did a poll with the two most competitive songs on the site, according to numerous polls I've seen (Close to the Edge and Supper's Ready) against Echoes from Pink Floyd... and so far Echoes is winning (even though CttE is getting very near).


Pitting 2 symph prog tracks against just the one space rock track could have split the vote on the symph side? (I'm theorising that the space rock fans voted for Echoes en masse). Political and music polls are not so differentSmile


yes I think but have misidentified the parties. It is not symphonic against S.R. but fans of Floyd, against Yes fan, against the bobbleheads. Yes men love Yes for very specific reasons.. reasons that you hardly ever find in Genesis music.  Conversely much of what I suppose bobbleheads enjoy Genesis you don't really find in Yes. What is and is not symphonic really means nothing.  Yes were really not a symphonic band anyway.  They had one album one could fit into that camp... the rest.. including the CTTE track.. were nothing more that creative done.. progressive pop. It was the first and only 18 minute long pop song using traditional pop song structure..
intro/verse/chorus/verse/chorus/middle8/instrumental-break/verse/chorus/outro format just elogated and more fully developed that one can in a 3 minute long pop song.

Take one out, aliances shift.  I voted CttE of course, minus that, Echoes is far superior to Supper's Ready.  I think if one voted for Supper's Ready that is prone to put you sleep than excite you and make you want to go the woodshed and play till your hands bleed... do you think they are voting for Close to the Edge.. they vote Floyd.




Well, perhaps I should do a poll of Echoes vs CttE and another vs SR, just to see how the results work separatley. One between CttE and SR must be rather unecessary, I guess there must be many of them and one might just need to find them.
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Chris S View Drop Down
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Points: 7028 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2015 at 21:47
Just wondering of the tortoise has a chance of beating the hare......

Genesis all the way.....
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The Dark Elf View Drop Down
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One Pink to rule them all.
One Pink to find them.
One Pink to bring them all
And with their Floydness bind them.
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2015 at 16:46
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by BarryGlibb BarryGlibb wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by akamaisondufromage akamaisondufromage wrote:


I do feel that this would have been a much closer contest if Genesis hadn't been up against Jethro Toe but, rather the slightly more popular Jethro Tull had been thrown into the mix! I've never had much time for Toe. 


hah

Tull... lost to a far superior group in the first round LOLAngry

DULL.. lost to a far superior group in the Sweet 16. LOLAngry


Toe lost in the great 8 to a band whose prog phase was even more dull than theirs was...LOLLOLClap




I give up!

 
Don't give up, Barry. We knew Tull would not beat the intractable fanboys of Genesis, even if Tull sold far more albums than Genesis -- until, of course, Genesis completely sold out and did lame ballads.
 
My suggestion? Do what I am going to do. I am henceforth voting for Pink Floyd against Yes, Crimson and Genesis. If all the Tull votes went to Floyd and all the allegedly "bestest" prog bands lost, it would upset the entire PA equilibrium. Posters might start committing suicide, or at least soil their shorts or water their keyboards with unnumbered tears due to the infamy! The blasphemy! The heresy! Wink


Don't worry, Pink Floyd can hold their own very well against any of the bands on this site. They can beat just about anyone, or at least give a very good fight, Gilmour can have a very good round against any guitar player, even beat most of them (including Fripp himself), and I just did a poll with the two most competitive songs on the site, according to numerous polls I've seen (Close to the Edge and Supper's Ready) against Echoes from Pink Floyd... and so far Echoes is winning (even though CttE is getting very near).

Pitting 2 symph prog tracks against just the one space rock track could have split the vote on the symph side? (I'm theorising that the space rock fans voted for Echoes en masse). Political and music polls are not so differentSmile


yes I think but have misidentified the parties. It is not symphonic against S.R. but fans of Floyd, against Yes fan, against the bobbleheads. Yes men love Yes for very specific reasons.. reasons that you hardly ever find in Genesis music.  Conversely much of what I suppose bobbleheads enjoy Genesis you don't really find in Yes. What is and is not symphonic really means nothing.  Yes were really not a symphonic band anyway.  They had one album one could fit into that camp... the rest.. including the CTTE track.. were nothing more that creative done.. progressive pop. It was the first and only 18 minute long pop song using traditional pop song structure.. intro/verse/chorus/verse/chorus/middle8/instrumental-break/verse/chorus/outro format just elogated and more fully developed that one can in a 3 minute long pop song.

Take one out, aliances shift.  I voted CttE of course, minus that, Echoes is far superior to Supper's Ready.  I think if one voted for Supper's Ready that is prone to put you sleep than excite you and make you want to go the woodshed and play till your hands bleed... do you think they are voting for Close to the Edge.. they vote Floyd.


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Points: 28085 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2015 at 16:32
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by BarryGlibb BarryGlibb wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by akamaisondufromage akamaisondufromage wrote:


I do feel that this would have been a much closer contest if Genesis hadn't been up against Jethro Toe but, rather the slightly more popular Jethro Tull had been thrown into the mix! I've never had much time for Toe. 


hah

Tull... lost to a far superior group in the first round LOLAngry

DULL.. lost to a far superior group in the Sweet 16. LOLAngry


Toe lost in the great 8 to a band whose prog phase was even more dull than theirs was...LOLLOLClap




I give up!

 
Don't give up, Barry. We knew Tull would not beat the intractable fanboys of Genesis, even if Tull sold far more albums than Genesis -- until, of course, Genesis completely sold out and did lame ballads.
 
My suggestion? Do what I am going to do. I am henceforth voting for Pink Floyd against Yes, Crimson and Genesis. If all the Tull votes went to Floyd and all the allegedly "bestest" prog bands lost, it would upset the entire PA equilibrium. Posters might start committing suicide, or at least soil their shorts or water their keyboards with unnumbered tears due to the infamy! The blasphemy! The heresy! Wink


Don't worry, Pink Floyd can hold their own very well against any of the bands on this site. They can beat just about anyone, or at least give a very good fight, Gilmour can have a very good round against any guitar player, even beat most of them (including Fripp himself), and I just did a poll with the two most competitive songs on the site, according to numerous polls I've seen (Close to the Edge and Supper's Ready) against Echoes from Pink Floyd... and so far Echoes is winning (even though CttE is getting very near).

Pitting 2 symph prog tracks against just the one space rock track could have split the vote on the symph side? (I'm theorising that the space rock fans voted for Echoes en masse). Political and music polls are not so differentSmile
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Points: 4335 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2015 at 08:26
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

I love both bands, to be honest. I am thankful both of them contributed in a big way to my taste in moozik.
Now let's group hug HugBig smile

We all love both bands



Not all of us.

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:


I am not any band fanboy, and could careless for this music......I only come here to see what pics you put in your signature.
Next......


At least you're enjoying something.


Time always wins.
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Points: 2511 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2015 at 07:50
My 1971 strong tracks from both bands

Tull-aqualung, wondring aloud, cross eyed Mary, mother goose, cheap day return, up to me, for later, up the pool, life is a long song, hymn 43(quad version), dr bogenbroom, wondring again

Genesis-return of the giant hogweed, fountain of Salmacis, for absent friends

Tull wins 12-3 in 1971
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2015 at 23:13
Just like Focus - Hocus Pocus is most popular, mine favorite of theirs is Eruption. Thick as a brick happens to be most popular, however one of my ultimate favorites of Tull is Jethro Tull - Aqualung Live 1980 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I58oeTvgNU
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2015 at 23:07
I have not voted here because I love both, say what you want you will this popular song is the obvious track that sealed Tull in history forever.       Jethro Tull - Thick as a brick - live here - 1978 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV-ASc0qkrM 

Edited by Kati - January 07 2015 at 23:08
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Points: 12732 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2015 at 23:00
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by BarryGlibb BarryGlibb wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by akamaisondufromage akamaisondufromage wrote:


I do feel that this would have been a much closer contest if Genesis hadn't been up against Jethro Toe but, rather the slightly more popular Jethro Tull had been thrown into the mix! I've never had much time for Toe. 


hah

Tull... lost to a far superior group in the first round LOLAngry

DULL.. lost to a far superior group in the Sweet 16. LOLAngry


Toe lost in the great 8 to a band whose prog phase was even more dull than theirs was...LOLLOLClap




I give up!

 
Don't give up, Barry. We knew Tull would not beat the intractable fanboys of Genesis, even if Tull sold far more albums than Genesis -- until, of course, Genesis completely sold out and did lame ballads.
 
My suggestion? Do what I am going to do. I am henceforth voting for Pink Floyd against Yes, Crimson and Genesis. If all the Tull votes went to Floyd and all the allegedly "bestest" prog bands lost, it would upset the entire PA equilibrium. Posters might start committing suicide, or at least soil their shorts or water their keyboards with unnumbered tears due to the infamy! The blasphemy! The heresy! Wink


Don't worry, Pink Floyd can hold their own very well against any of the bands on this site. They can beat just about anyone, or at least give a very good fight, Gilmour can have a very good round against any guitar player, even beat most of them (including Fripp himself), and I just did a poll with the two most competitive songs on the site, according to numerous polls I've seen (Close to the Edge and Supper's Ready) against Echoes from Pink Floyd... and so far Echoes is winning (even though CttE is getting very near).
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Points: 12732 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2015 at 22:55
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:



Oh well, the thing for me, is that none of those albums is really a 5 star masterpiece. All of them have at least one song that I really dislike. The closest album for me would be Selling England by the Pound, and even that one has Battle of Epping Forest. Also Tresspass is really close, but even though that one doesn't have any song that I really dislike, it doesn't have such highlights on it as the next albums would have.


Well, it's a matter of opinions.

I don't believe an album has to be perfect to be a masterpiece. It may have 1 or 2 songs that I dislike, but I value many other things

1.- Balance
2.- Transcendence
3.- Lyrics
4.- Performance
5.- Factor X

For me, every Genesis album except SEBTP have a perfect balance. all are transcendental for Prog, all have brilliant lyrics, the performances are impeccable, but overall...The music creates emotions on me.

CTTE is a masterpíece, but doesn't move me in the way Fountain of Salmacis, In the Cage or Can Utilitty move me.

Relayer is a super album, technically impeccable (Moraz is a genius), but leaves me cold in the field of emotion.

Thick as a Brick has a BRILLIANT intro, the lyrics are amazing, but after 10 minutes they start to repeat themselves.

Genesis did well avoiding endless epics, because too much time on your hands lead to repetition, the only real epic (Suppers Ready) is more a collection of different songs united only by a concept and that was brilliant..I love Fountain of Salmacis, and it lasts exactly as much as it should last..The organ intro impresses me because they don't repeat it 10 times in the song.

That's where the greatness of Genesius rests, they did what they needed to do, not more, nobiody tries to be a star, they leave their egos behind and play for the band, to the point that people believed Hackett was just a good guitar player until he left the band and did what he wanted to do.

Genesis was a team, few bands managed this.


Well yeah, I agree about the opinion that an album doesn't have to be perfect to be a masterpiece. Actually, there are many albums that have one, or perhaps two songs I don't really like so much, but that as a whole I consider masterpieces... but those songs need not to bother me too much at least, nor be too long (such as "Have a Cigar" on Wish you were Here, or "Pigs on the Wing" on Animals... perhaps even "On the Run"... and "Money" on Dark Side of the Moon... or the "solo" songs on Fragile). But unfortunatley those songs I don't like on Genesis are either too long and/or too annoying and end up breaking the flow of otherwise wonderful music. For me a perfect Genesis album would have been "The Knife", "Musical Box", "Supper's Ready", "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight", "Firth of Fifth", "Cinema Show", and perhaps "In the Cage" to throw in something from The Lamb. Also, I might include "One for the Vine", but since that one is after Gabriel left and has a bit of a different feel, I might just not include it along the other ones.


The only long Genesis song that annoys me is Battle Of Epping Forest. It really does get very annoying very quickly. At least when ELP did Benny The Bouncer they kept it mercifully short (although they still cop way more flak for it).

That is a list of great Genesis songs yet an album with Stagnation , Fountain of Salmacis , Watcher of The Skies ,Can Utilty and The Coastliners plus the last quarter of Lamb could also work just as well for me.


Yeah, I really hate Battle of Epping Forest a lot too... just the song that ruins Selling England for me. Also Benny the Bouncer, but from that album I also don't particularly like Atack of the Giant Hogweed, and Fountain of Salmacis I half like and half dislike. About Watcher of the Skies, I also half like it and half dislike it... but there's the live version by Hackett on Tokyo Tapes, with Wetton on vocals, which I really love... the singing and whole playing just sounds so much warmer and natural. Can Utility I do like, but also I like better the version on Genesis Revisited... and from Lamb, well there are some nice songs, but mostly I feel they lost their magic on this album. I might add also The Lamia, which doesn't completley convince me on the album, I also like much better on Genesis Revisited.
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2015 at 22:54
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

I love both bands, to be honest. I am thankful both of them contributed in a big way to my taste in moozik.
Now let's group hug HugBig smile

We all love both bands

As a fact have all Jethro albums and not remotely all Genesis (After Hackett left, I only bought ATTW3).
            
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2015 at 22:40
I love both bands, to be honest. I am thankful both of them contributed in a big way to my taste in moozik.
Now let's group hug HugBig smile
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Points: 1422 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2015 at 22:33
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by manofmystery manofmystery wrote:

Why can't Genesis fan boys behave more like DT fan boys and bugger off?
Sick of this lackluster band dominating this genre.  It's good prog buried under awful singing from a guy in a stupid flower costume.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Stop building it into something it's not.
To be fair Jethro Tull is one of my favorite bands of all time but there's absolutely no doubt they made much more interesting music.

 
I am not any band fanboy, and could careless for this music......I only come here to see what pics you put in your signature.
Next......


Well said Catch.
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2015 at 22:04
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Ivan, never once heard The Strawbs referred to as a "Celtic" prog band -- English folk all the way. And there roots were in American Bluegrass. Check your sources.
 
 

Well, Jethro Tull was a Blues band until 1969 - 1970, never saw them as a folk or celtic band, rather than a Blues band that also played Folk (among other genres)

You can check the net, many agree with my opinion about Strawbs

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:


Smile  popular does not equal best. Unless you want to admit that Camel was a great band. Greater than ELP which is bullsh*t and everyone outside of Camel fanboy knows it. Even many Camel fans I suspect know it... however there was no stipulation on how to vote. I didn't ask people to vote on most important... sure didn't ask to vote for favorites. I just told them to vote.. thus people voted as they wished. Some did vote for bands they love.. some were faced with bands they did not like.. and voted based upon the more objective criteria. 



Of course I agree with you, as a fact, GENESIS was the most unpopular big Prog band during the Symphonic golden era.

While YES, ELP, KING CRIMSON played in front of crowds, GENESIS had to shorten the Lamb tour because they couldn't sell tickets, and wasn't even filmed.

Their first three albums were extremely unpopular except in Italy and Belgium, their first remotely popular album was SEBTP because of "I Know What I Like" which reached N° 17°....Most Prog Genesis albums were Gold certified only after years (If I'm not wrong, only The Lamb had Gold certification in the 70's).

They got real attention (In comparison with the other big 5) after the prog formation split...They have aged well unlike other bands.

You know I can't care less about popularity or lack of it, I love Pink Floyd who have two of the best sold albums in history and Love Genesis who were really unpopular
            
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Points: 2511 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2015 at 21:20
Best song on England is Epping forest. Lots a cool melodies. Firth is a bit over dramatic and depressing. It would sit well on dark side of the moon. Moonlit starts boring but livens up well. Cinema starts with cringe worthy lyrics but is a nice song. Gabriel's voice, lyrics and outfits got worse each album. He's a bit unbearable on the lamb. His 80s stuff sucks
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Points: 13065 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2015 at 21:04
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by BarryGlibb BarryGlibb wrote:



You went to all that trouble to tell me something that I learnt at University in the subject Tull 101?


And The Strawbs are English folk prog, not celtic, like Horslips. Discuss.

Then why do you talk about disrespect?

BTW: Strawbs are considered a Celtic Prog band by every Prog site.

Their roots are based in Celtic Folk
Ivan, never once heard The Strawbs referred to as a "Celtic" prog band -- English folk all the way. And there roots were in American Bluegrass. Check your sources.
 
 


Edited by The Dark Elf - January 07 2015 at 21:05
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2015 at 21:02
I like Genesis, Jethro Toe and Camel toe too! Big smile hugs Hug
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2015 at 20:51
Originally posted by BarryGlibb BarryGlibb wrote:



You went to all that trouble to tell me something that I learnt at University in the subject Tull 101?


And The Strawbs are English folk prog, not celtic, like Horslips. Discuss.

Then why do you talk about disrespect?

BTW: Strawbs are considered a Celtic Prog band by every Prog site.

Their roots are based in Celtic Folk
            
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