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Slartibartfast
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Joined: April 29 2006
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Topic: Final demise of CD players? Posted: November 24 2015 at 21:01 |
problemI think you have hit on the crux of the problem. Just remember...only an expert can deal with the problem...
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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The Dark Elf
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Posted: November 24 2015 at 20:53 |
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Slartibartfast
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Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
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Posted: November 24 2015 at 20:48 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Sean Trane
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Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
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Points: 20239
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Posted: August 31 2015 at 04:43 |
Dean wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
Anyways, I'd have to imagine that the disc-spinning/reading mechanism inside hi-fi CD player are probably available in two or three different models and quality (either from Phillips or Sony design)
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That was the case ten years ago because those two companies jointly owned the patents for optical discs and transport mechanisms, not sure what the situation is now as the patents expired back in 2009. I suspect that most brand-named manufacturers (Aiwa, Akai, NAD, Onkyo, Technics, etc.) continue to use either Philips or Sony products because neither of those companies are stupid enough to lose a main revenue stream just because a patent expired. If a player manufacturer doesn't mention the design of the transport specifically in their promotional literature then it's likely that they would have bought-in the mechanism rather than designed and manufactured it themselves - if you are going to the expense of manufacturing your own mechanism then you're going to make a big song and dance about it.
As the market dwindles there is little incentive for other manufacturers to get into the game. With all products like this (DAC chips, TFT screens, Hard-drives, etc.) the market is dominated by one or two prime manufacturers |
That was more or less my train of thought.... Even Blue-Rays were somewhat of a disappointtment in terms of sales (both discs and readers), so who'd risk starting a manufacturing plants of a more or less dying technology that has seen its better days over a decade ago.
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Catcher10
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Posted: August 30 2015 at 16:10 |
Nightfly wrote:
Catcher10 wrote:
Nightfly wrote:
Although I prefer vinyl I've got a hell of a lot of CD's and am still buying them about 50/50 Cd/Vinyl. I can't see them going away anytime soon despite the drop in sales.
I've just bought a new CD player this week - had too as my old Arcam finally gave up but I was glad of the excuse to get a new one to be honest. My new Roksan K3 only came out this year so Hi-Fi manufacurer's are still investing in Cd technology despite what many might tell you.
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Nice Nightfly! I have only read great things about this Roksan K3. The balanced XLR digital output sounds really interesting....Would like to read your impressions once you have some hours on it.
Have fun!
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Yes, sounds really great though haven't had chance to put it through its paces yet. I choose it for its tight and powerful bass and detailed overall sound having compared it back to back with players from Naim, Audio Analogue, Rega and Unico (Unison Research). The interesting thing about the Unico which I almost went for was it uses valves which gave it a really warm almost vinyl like sound. The sound wasn't as tight though overall which is why I went for the Roksan though it was a lovely sounding player. |
I have never been a Rega CDP fan, they seem to have a lot of issues with their drives and optical pickups, plus I think Rega products in general are over priced. Naim is excellent gear......The trick with valve CDP is you need to probably roll in different vales to find the best sound, so there is some tweaking you can do to improve the SQ. I know cables can be considered snake oil, but you might try that tweak once you find the Roksan has settled in. Looks like the DAC supports up to 24bit/192kHz resolution....main reason I chose the player I have.
Congrats
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Nightfly
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Joined: August 01 2007
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Points: 3659
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Posted: August 30 2015 at 04:18 |
Catcher10 wrote:
Nightfly wrote:
Although I prefer vinyl I've got a hell of a lot of CD's and am still buying them about 50/50 Cd/Vinyl. I can't see them going away anytime soon despite the drop in sales.
I've just bought a new CD player this week - had too as my old Arcam finally gave up but I was glad of the excuse to get a new one to be honest. My new Roksan K3 only came out this year so Hi-Fi manufacurer's are still investing in Cd technology despite what many might tell you.
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Nice Nightfly! I have only read great things about this Roksan K3. The balanced XLR digital output sounds really interesting....Would like to read your impressions once you have some hours on it.
Have fun!
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Yes, sounds really great though haven't had chance to put it through its paces yet. I choose it for its tight and powerful bass and detailed overall sound having compared it back to back with players from Naim, Audio Analogue, Rega and Unico (Unison Research). The interesting thing about the Unico which I almost went for was it uses valves which gave it a really warm almost vinyl like sound. The sound wasn't as tight though overall which is why I went for the Roksan though it was a lovely sounding player.
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Dean
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Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Points: 37575
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Posted: August 30 2015 at 03:39 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Anyways, I'd have to imagine that the disc-spinning/reading mechanism inside hi-fi CD player are probably available in two or three different models and quality (either from Phillips or Sony design)
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That was the case ten years ago because those two companies jointly owned the patents for optical discs and transport mechanisms, not sure what the situation is now as the patents expired back in 2009. I suspect that most brand-named manufacturers (Aiwa, Akai, NAD, Onkyo, Technics, etc.) continue to use either Philips or Sony products because neither of those companies are stupid enough to lose a main revenue stream just because a patent expired. If a player manufacturer doesn't mention the design of the transport specifically in their promotional literature then it's likely that they would have bought-in the mechanism rather than designed and manufactured it themselves - if you are going to the expense of manufacturing your own mechanism then you're going to make a big song and dance about it.
As the market dwindles there is little incentive for other manufacturers to get into the game. With all products like this (DAC chips, TFT screens, Hard-drives, etc.) the market is dominated by one or two prime manufacturers
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What?
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Sean Trane
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Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20239
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Posted: August 30 2015 at 01:49 |
Dean wrote:
From a technical perspective since all the DACs used in every CD and DVD player currently in production are essentially of the same specification you probably couldn't slide a fag-paper between any of them regardless of how much you paid for them. This is also true of the majority of external DACs (the modern equivalent of the Emperor's New Clothes). What you get for your extra £900 is a better build quality, possibly better mechanics (though that is not a certainty) and perhaps slightly better analogue back-end. |
I was looking to buy a new portable DVD player (you know, the kind to occupy kids in the car), because my previous one fell and got broken, but the choice has really dwindled and no household name companies (Sony, Panasonic, Phillips, etc..) care to put out such readers anymore. It's all brandnames I'd never heard before, and that I've totally forgotten a few months later It seems that everything has become cheap quality compared to what I'd bought some 10 nyears back. Basically all available models today featire one of two disc-reading mechanism, both of them having the sliding laserhead pathway mechanics open, whereas previously this pathway was closed, and no dust could get inside that part of the unit. So far, I've not replaced my old broken one, because of this "cheapness". Anyways, I'd have to imagine that the disc-spinning/reading mechanism inside hi-fi CD player are probably available in two or three different models and quality (either from Phillips or Sony design)
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Catcher10
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Posted: August 30 2015 at 00:15 |
Nightfly wrote:
Although I prefer vinyl I've got a hell of a lot of CD's and am still buying them about 50/50 Cd/Vinyl. I can't see them going away anytime soon despite the drop in sales.
I've just bought a new CD player this week - had too as my old Arcam finally gave up but I was glad of the excuse to get a new one to be honest. My new Roksan K3 only came out this year so Hi-Fi manufacurer's are still investing in Cd technology despite what many might tell you.
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Nice Nightfly! I have only read great things about this Roksan K3. The balanced XLR digital output sounds really interesting....Would like to read your impressions once you have some hours on it.
Have fun!
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The Dark Elf
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Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
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Posted: August 29 2015 at 18:10 |
Meh. I have a fairly expensive Onkyo CD player I bought 10 years ago and it still works and sounds fine. I think it's the receiver and speakers that matter more.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Dean
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Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: August 29 2015 at 17:49 |
From a technical perspective since all the DACs used in every CD and DVD player currently in production are essentially of the same specification you probably couldn't slide a fag-paper between any of them regardless of how much you paid for them. This is also true of the majority of external DACs (the modern equivalent of the Emperor's New Clothes). What you get for your extra £900 is a better build quality, possibly better mechanics (though that is not a certainty) and perhaps slightly better analogue back-end.
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What?
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Nightfly
Special Collaborator
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Joined: August 01 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 3659
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Posted: August 29 2015 at 17:11 |
The Cd player I replaced was and Arcam CD92 and that cost £900 in the late 90's and so i wanted something at least as good as that. While prices have generally gone up on most things i think with Hi-Fi and the advances they've made I think you get more for your money now than say 20 years ago. For an extra couple of 100 I feel I've got a much better Cd player than my last one.
Whilst I certainly don't consider it a cheap player there are plenty out there that cost a lot more. Nain for example have the CDx2 which I believe goes for around £3500. Of course the laws of diminishing returns kick in once you start going that far. I could never afford to go down that road even if I wanted too.
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Dean
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Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: August 29 2015 at 10:51 |
...a £1000 CD player does seem excessively expensive in this day-and-age when you can pick up a Cambridge Audio CD player (also designed in UK but made in China) for a tenth of the price. But then £1000 in today's money is equivalent to £550 in 1994 and I certainly paid that kind of sum for a Micromega Stage 1 CD player back then.
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What?
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20623
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Posted: August 29 2015 at 08:22 |
^you spent that much on just a cd player...??? Did you take out a loan?
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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Nightfly
Special Collaborator
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Joined: August 01 2007
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Posted: August 28 2015 at 18:23 |
Although I prefer vinyl I've got a hell of a lot of CD's and am still buying them about 50/50 Cd/Vinyl. I can't see them going away anytime soon despite the drop in sales.
I've just bought a new CD player this week - had too as my old Arcam finally gave up but I was glad of the excuse to get a new one to be honest. My new Roksan K3 only came out this year so Hi-Fi manufacurer's are still investing in Cd technology despite what many might tell you.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20239
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Posted: July 06 2015 at 05:19 |
Those digipāk are atrocious IMHO... not only is the carboard terribly exposed to scratchs, but once the center prongs of the tray are broken, you're screwed (unrepairable)... At least with CDs, you can replace the jewel cases OK, of late, they've made digipaks with a more solid center prong thing. But for albums I rerally hold dear , I'll splurge for a mini-Lp Cds replica (provided the artwork is reallky worth it)/
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Roj
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Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Manchester, UK
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Points: 3126
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Posted: July 06 2015 at 03:33 |
My favourite medium, cd players best not go away just yet!! I get annoyed with those digipaks where the fit is too tight (oo er matron ) and you end up tearing the cover - not good.
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Kati
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Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: July 05 2015 at 08:02 |
cd's are cheap they cost just about the same as one Frappuccino at Starbucks. However jewel cases are crap, they crack and gets scratches plus change colour thus eventually once we all get used to it we will end up with digipacks which one could consider mini gatefolds Unless another option comes along, they will not demise. Fact is that people like tangible goods and digital mp3's won't make up for that.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20239
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Posted: July 05 2015 at 06:10 |
lostrom wrote:
CD will not die in our lifetime. |
Don't think so myself, despite all the vinyl junkies wishing it to. Give you an example: last Sunday, I was downtown Brussels (the first day they have that bloody enlarged pedestrian area, which now encompasses my two fave librairies and my two faves record shops >> accessing by car will be tremendously difficult). Anyway, in Caroline music, while buying two CDs, I meet a journalist doing the rounds and collecting feedback about the extended pedestrian zone. I tell him I'm totally against (well yes for the small sideroads, but closing to traffic the main Blvd is catastrophic)... He wants a picture, and I decline... he insisted heavily (saying it was almost mandatory), so I oblige holding the three books and two CDs in front of me... he even let me choose which one I wanted published. Next monday, I read the article (a fifth of a page reserved to moi, if you please ) relaying more or less faithfully my PoV, but no picture (not complaining, though ). Then re-reading it, I noticed he said I bought vinyls (not Cds) while the picture has me holding CDs... The a...hole didn't publish the photo, because he's a vinyl junkie, and doesn't want people to think someone can still be buying CDs .. little b*****d
PrognosticMind wrote:
While
the CD might become more unpopular relative to other forms of music
media, I can't see it going the way of the eight track. |
Remember the VCR?? It's getting pretty hard to find a new standalone player/recorder... and when you do, they're low-end quality crap... The only mid-qual is for the multi-use combined unit (I own for about 10 years a DVD/VHS recorder/player and my GF (still at the age of VHS tapes) had to resort to do the same last year, despite having no use for DVD-r
Catcher10 wrote:
Remember the OP is asking about "CD Players"......not the disc itself. |
Well, I still think that like turntables, you'll get a few higher-end players still available, but probably not available in hpermarkets >> you'll probably have to go to hi-fi specialists.... But I'll think about having a reserve deck just in case.
HackettFan wrote:
I listen a lot to CDs in my car. My current vehicle (a Ford C-Max Hybrid) lets me use CDs or MP3s off of a flash drive. I never use the latter. Has anyone yet bought or come across a vehicle in which a USB input is the only option? |
Well, I've recently rented cars that don't even have CD decks anymore... Sonce the mid- 90's, all of the cars I owned had a CD deck (sometimes replacing the old cassette deck, bu yours truly). I've not bought car stereos in quite a while (and therefore didn't get stolen one either), because during the 00's, the car maker had their own un-transplantable decks of good quality (it's useless to install hi-end sound in a car, a place not made for hi-end audiophiles) to other models of cars... in the future, this could be a real problem , unless resorting to having a discman (are they still made? ) entering the unit... but you'd have to place it somewhere hidden but easily reached (not under a seat) or removed...
Edited by Sean Trane - July 06 2015 at 05:16
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: July 04 2015 at 19:46 |
you both are naughty
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