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Topic ClosedDo you hate certain prog because of popularity?
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wilmon91 View Drop Down
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Points: 698 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 10:26
You can't just use the word "popularity" , you must distinguish between classics and music of current popularity. If I read a book by Shakespeare, am I mislead by "popularity"? Or Bach - is he overrated? Classics of all sort usually have a guaraneed quality in it, usually it is something that's made an impact on followers that came later. You can listen to an obscure band that is highly influenced by one classic, well known band - but why ignore a highly influential band that inspired a great number of later bands?
 
Recent popularity regarding modern, current things , is another thing. Of course, if one hates a band, it's because of it's popularity. If it was totally unknown - and bad - why would you bother wasting energy on it?
 
You can direct your anger either towards an artist, or the listeners and fans of the artist. Without listeners the artist wouldn't be popular.
 
I don't hate any artist. I was extremely frustrated in the nineties with commercial radio stations and people's music habits. The commercial stations started in sweden in -95. I hated it, not just because of the music, but because of the few amount of songs in rotation which caused a crazy repetition. And of course, commercials and insane jingles on top of that.
 
Today it's different, radio isn't as popular. It has to do with the fact that now people can listen to all kinds of stuff without having to pay for it, everyone has mp3 players and mobile phones which enables you to listen to anything anytime. The positive thing is that people can try different things and explore music in a way that was impossible 10-15 years ago. I have heard of commercial radio stations that have had to shut down because lack of listeners, which is great. That's the only thing I have wholeheartedly hated, the radio stations, and one of my big frustrations I have with people is the acceptance of the insane repetition of commercials and individual songs. I rarely listen to a song more than once a day - maybe twice in rare occasions. It's the whole phenomenon of people surrendering to collectively accepted habits without thinking for themselves that I have a problem with, but that's mostly a thing of society, not a thing specificaly related to music.


Edited by wilmon91 - January 27 2011 at 10:29
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Points: 249 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 10:16
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

The more popular prog, at least the classics, owed more to distribution than quality. The most popular bands (Pink Floyd, Yes, Genesis, ELP, Jethro Tull) all had major record label contracts. Before the internet, you pretty much got what the local record store had or maybe mail order something you were lucky enough to know about. With what I have discovered of the classic era due to the internet, many of those popular bands would not have made it to my collection.

Worth ridiculing someone over? Of course not. But I likewise will not listen to any assertion that popularity has any basis on quality.

I agree 100%.
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 09:50
Maybe some people just don't like popular bands because they don't like them? You can't just assume that it's because they're popular. 
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 2555 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 09:22
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by Prog Geo Prog Geo wrote:

Generally popularity bothers me!(especially in music)So,the answer is yes.But I don't hate certain prog.I usually don't choose to hear it.


I'm guessing you at least give it a chance before deciding not to hear it again?


Yes!!!
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 09:15
Originally posted by progkidjoel progkidjoel wrote:

Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Anyone who hates highly rated stuff just for that reason is a hipster and we should shun them.


Originally posted by Xanatos Xanatos wrote:

Only hipsters will tend to hate a band just because of his popularity


Originally posted by zravkapt zravkapt wrote:

And hipsters will like a band for no other reason than they are *not* popular.


Is this the defintion of the hipster? Because by this logic a vast number of proggers are pure hipsters. Just hear them talking about mainstream music and tastes.

I thought the hipster is the person who thinks that certain slightly unconventional mainstream music he likes is the best, most exquisite and avantgarde music ever. Like indie-rock, which is just a subsection of pop culture. Whenever I mention an indie and highly popular band that I like, I get called a hipster LOL So one of these two definitions must be wrong, they pretty much contradict each other.
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Points: 13481 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 08:47
Originally posted by petrica petrica wrote:

Originally posted by Mastosis Mastosis wrote:

I don't care if it's popular or not; I don't let other people dictate my musical taste. I like it because I like, not because some random dude I've never met before tells me to like it.


Good point. I'm always keeping an eye on what people are saying. But the final decision should be of course a personal one.

Same here. I personally don't care if the music is popular, either if it's considered prog or not. If I like it, I'll buy it and listen to it, if not, it will not make it to my collection, no matter what people say. I will always respect the work of an artist, either I like their music or not, but if I don't like it, I don't see the point of investing time and money on it.
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 08:35
Originally posted by Prog Geo Prog Geo wrote:

Generally popularity bothers me!(especially in music)So,the answer is yes.But I don't hate certain prog.I usually don't choose to hear it.


I'm guessing you at least give it a chance before deciding not to hear it again?
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Points: 6446 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 08:33
And hipsters will like a band for no other reason than they are *not* popular.
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Points: 525 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 08:20
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:


This, in spades. I respect everyone's right to like or dislike a piece of work, but I will never understand the attitude that because it was/is popular, it is somehow bad. It isn't.
Who has said this? We're all arguing against a position that nobody in the discussion is willing to defend! Just like when we complain about pop fans who won't listen to anything besides Top 40 or elitist avant-garde fans who only like constant dissonance or symphonic fans who are close-minded and won't try anything new or prog metal fans who are close minded and only like prog metal or Raga Rock fans for being complete jerks and losers (although that last one is only because it's easy to pick on people who don't exist). Does stating our dislike of a stereotype validate us in some way? This is something that comes up not just here but fairly frequently on the internet generally (less charitable communities call their version of this behavior a "circlejerk") and I find it baffling.

Also, Watcher, I didn't see the post you refer to in the OP, but I am 99% sure that poster was joking when he called your choices cliche. Or perhaps he was annoyed that you were adding a post in the recent purchases thread when someone on this site buying ELP and Caravan is not exactly revelatory. I don't know, I'd have to see the post and who made it to read any intent into it without guessing, but you're not going to find any serious opposition to listening to well-regarded albums of a certain genre before trying to find the obscure stuff. 


Henry's right, such is the way the proposition is framed, arguing against it would be tantamount to a troll self incriminating themselves.

Henry and Lemmie - the voices of reason in another emotion-filled and humor-blind thread. Onward through the fog!


Edited by hobocamp - January 27 2011 at 08:27
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Prog Geo View Drop Down
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Points: 2555 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 08:17
Generally popularity bothers me!(especially in music)So,the answer is yes.But I don't hate certain prog.I usually don't choose to hear it.
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Points: 31 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 08:06

I wouldn't say I dislike some of the more popular prog because it's popular, but I certainly dislike some of the popular stuff. I also tend to take a more negative angle towards stuff that is popular that i don't particularly like, compared to less popular bands, mainly to be a bit of a counterweight to all the overly enthusiastic fans. I find Dream Theater to be hugely overrated, and the same goes for Opeth and PT. I find TAAB to be uninteresting. The popularity of these (and I own albums by all of them) makes me more likely to voice negative opinions about them. If they weren't popular I probably would ignore them completely (like you tend to do with most mediocre stuff).

Another point worth mentioning is that popular bands/songs/albums may tend to be more in the taste of the masses, and not so much for me (I realize that I sound like an elitist snob here). I don't mean that the taste of a lot of people is bad, but experience has taught me that if a random person says "You have to listen to this! It's awesome!", it pretty much never suits me, and the same goes for highly rated stuff on sites like this. There are exceptions to this, and I like some of the higher ranked albums on here, but the argument that popular usually doesn't fit me still stands. I have also discovered after looking at some ratings here that I tend to like the less popular stuff more. Take Pain of Salvation, which is a band I know very well. Their highest rated album (not by a huge margin, but still) is The Perfect Element. To me that is easily their worst album. Two of my favorite albums by them is Road Salt and Scarsick. They are way down at the bottom if you look at the ratings, between 0.5 and 0.85 points below the next album. I'm sure there are more examples of this too.

The conclusion is: I don't really like a lot of the popular stuff, but that's probably more because it doesn't suit my taste rather than because it's popular, though there also is an element of hating the more popular stuff just because it's popular and I don't feel it deserves to be.
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Points: 305 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 08:05
Only hipsters will tend to hate a band just because of his popularity
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 08:05
!) Sometimes an artist is very popular, simply because they are broadly recongised to be extremely good at what they do on an artistic level.

2) Sometimes an artist is very popular, simply because what they do conforms to an industry proven formula of what sells to a broad audience.

To be honest, I can't think of any prog bands who achieved popularity through the criteria in point 2. They wouldn't be prog bands if they had. Please don't point out the pop success of Genesis and Yes in the 80's. They were selling lorry loads of albums long before then..
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Points: 646 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 07:47
No. There is no reason for it. It is like hating Led Zeppelin just because they are one of the most recognized rock bands, but that doesn't make them bad. The music is what counts.
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 06:39
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:

No.  Certain prog is popular because it's bad.

My opinion as well.
How can you share such a juvenile opinion?
They're both very clearly joking.

They are? How does one tell?
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Points: 11420 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 06:25
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:


This, in spades. I respect everyone's right to like or dislike a piece of work, but I will never understand the attitude that because it was/is popular, it is somehow bad. It isn't.
Who has said this? We're all arguing against a position that nobody in the discussion is willing to defend! Just like when we complain about pop fans who won't listen to anything besides Top 40 or elitist avant-garde fans who only like constant dissonance or symphonic fans who are close-minded and won't try anything new or prog metal fans who are close minded and only like prog metal or Raga Rock fans for being complete jerks and losers (although that last one is only because it's easy to pick on people who don't exist). Does stating our dislike of a stereotype validate us in some way? This is something that comes up not just here but fairly frequently on the internet generally (less charitable communities call their version of this behavior a "circlejerk") and I find it baffling.

Also, Watcher, I didn't see the post you refer to in the OP, but I am 99% sure that poster was joking when he called your choices cliche. Or perhaps he was annoyed that you were adding a post in the recent purchases thread when someone on this site buying ELP and Caravan is not exactly revelatory. I don't know, I'd have to see the post and who made it to read any intent into it without guessing, but you're not going to find any serious opposition to listening to well-regarded albums of a certain genre before trying to find the obscure stuff. 


Henry's right, such is the way the proposition is framed, arguing against it would be tantamount to a troll self incriminating themselves.
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Points: 16715 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 05:42
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:

No.  Certain prog is popular because it's bad.

My opinion as well.
How can you share such a juvenile opinion?
They're both very clearly joking.
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 05:24
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:

No.  Certain prog is popular because it's bad.


My opinion as well.




How can you share such a juvenile opinion?
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Points: 659 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 05:20
No! If you'll pardon the pun, "I know what I like" and it doesn't matter to me who does or doesn't like it. I've no problem with popularity, if the music appeals to me, but as someone else mentioned, some bands get over exposed in these here parts, which can lead to a sub concious loathing of an artist for no other reason than they get talked about too much. All those albums you mentioned are excellent and are well worth checking out by all Prog fans, but there is a small snobbery factor going on here, the more obscure the band the better they must be...apparantly...? Its basically one-upmanship gone mad.Confused...but having said sometimes the obscure is betterConfusedConfused

Popularity! What is popular anyway? I mean bands who would seem to be popular, Porcupine Tree, Transatlantic, Opeth etc I don't know anybody outsde this forum who has even heard of them, never mind being able to critique their music!Unhappy
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Points: 934 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2011 at 04:40
Originally posted by Mastosis Mastosis wrote:

I don't care if it's popular or not; I don't let other people dictate my musical taste. I like it because I like, not because some random dude I've never met before tells me to like it.

          this ! Wink  and more <<  when i see that , Thick as a Brick is #1 , and Passion Play is only Good or Excellent album !  Fragile is a Masterpiece but Relayer is not !  in this case i have to reconsider the most popular stuff !  Wink
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