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Cygnus X-2 
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 24 2004
Location: Bucketheadland
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Points: 21342
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 Posted: October 26 2006 at 20:55 |
 stonebeard wrote:
Once again....
I can strangle a canary in a tin can and it would be really original, but that wouldn't save it from sounding like utter sh*t.
Don't bring originality into any discussion ever. It doesn't mean anything at all. |
The ever popular Mike Patton defense? 
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: October 26 2006 at 20:55 |
Once again....
I can strangle a canary in a tin can and it would be really original, but that wouldn't save it from sounding like utter sh*t.
Don't bring originality into any discussion ever. It doesn't mean anything at all.
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Cygnus X-2
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 24 2004
Location: Bucketheadland
Status: Offline
Points: 21342
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Posted: October 26 2006 at 20:49 |
GoldenSpiral wrote:
1. over-produced
2. under-original IMO
but then again, I just can't get into any kind of neo-prog.
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Sorry, but TFK ain't Neo Prog.
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Man Overboard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 07 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 3830
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Posted: October 26 2006 at 20:10 |
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I have a hard time understanding those who call TFK unoriginal... then again, maybe I just haven't heard the Yes/Genesis tracks that TFK were ripping off with songs like Rumble Fish Twist, Devil's Danceschool, Devil's Playground, Too Late For Tomatoes, Rhythm Of The Sea, The Unorthodox Dancinglesson, Psychedelic Postcard, and just about everything else.
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GoldenSpiral
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 27 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3839
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Posted: October 26 2006 at 19:34 |
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1. over-produced
2. under-original IMO
but then again, I just can't get into any kind of neo-prog.
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greenback
Special Collaborator
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Joined: August 14 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3300
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Posted: October 26 2006 at 19:03 |
i'm 39, and i like TFK very much!
i'm a die hard fan of about any prog sub genre regardless of the era, except krautrock & post rock.
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[HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!>
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Dirk
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 1043
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Posted: October 26 2006 at 17:08 |
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I like Bavarian Skies , nothing wrong with that song as far as i'm concerned. Then again i'm a diehard TFK fan.
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Scapler
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 18 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 2567
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Posted: October 26 2006 at 16:34 |
salmacis wrote:
'Bavarian Skies'? Well that was an obvious indulgence but at least it was short unlike some of their 10 minute ambles...
I never heard the original Kaipa albums, but I really didn't like 'Keyholder' much at all. A derivative, lumpen ragbag that made even TFK sound cohesive and innovative! Actually to be fair I don't mind TFK at all when they write songs... |
Yeah "Bavarian Skies"! 'Cha...
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Bassists are deadly
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition
Joined: April 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3928
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Posted: October 26 2006 at 16:32 |
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'Bavarian Skies'? Well that was an obvious indulgence but at least it was short unlike some of their 10 minute ambles...
I never heard the original Kaipa albums, but I really didn't like 'Keyholder' much at all. A derivative, lumpen ragbag that made even TFK sound cohesive and innovative! Actually to be fair I don't mind TFK at all when they write songs...
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Scapler
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 18 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 2567
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Posted: October 26 2006 at 16:27 |
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They aren't the best, but they are are my iPod, and I enjoy them from now to then.
And where else besides Paradox Hotel will you find a good song from the perspective of Hitler?
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Bassists are deadly
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The T
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: October 26 2006 at 14:00 |
TFK doesn't sound like Yes, it could be that they sound like a mix between yes, Crimson and even some ELP thrown there...but they add their own original character.... also, if you sound like a mix of a lot of bands, don't you have a unique sound? That's the uniqueness! They show they have prog-rock culture at paying tribute to many older musicians....
And, as somebody else correctly pointed out, remember: there was KAIPA. We may not know a lot about them (maybe 'cause their old albums were in swede), but they were around in the 70's, and guess who their lead guitar was? Roine Stolt! So I think he has all the right in this world to make his band sound like a 70's outfit, for he himself comes from that era.... Or tell me, what other band that was alive in the 70's still sound great today, or even more, PROGRESSES? Yes? Magnification was good but surely not NEW, Genesis? Dead, and their members? pop-millionaires (hackett tries at least)... Jethro Tull? They were touring my country when I still lived there: they haven't changed a bit... ELP? dead.
So thank God we have at leats one band that can give us music reminiscent of that era.... and rightfull so, for their member WAS THERE.
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bhikkhu
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 06 2006
Location: AČ Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 5109
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Posted: October 26 2006 at 11:56 |
I don't hate them, or really even dislike them. What I've heard just hasn't grabbed me. I am in my 40's, but like many of the newer artists (including Spock's Beard). I also don't give anything a pass because it might be a bit derivative. So what if it's more accessible than other genres (I'm a big Zeuhl fan as well). If it's good music, that's all that matters. 
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zFrogs
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 21 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 254
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Posted: October 26 2006 at 11:40 |
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Well, The flowers Kings is far from "Unique Sound". So what? They are fantastic musicians, the songs are greats and make me feels good. In these days one prog band that play symphonic like seventies bands is fantastic. I have all TFK records and I enjoy it. I really would like to know more bands like TFK. For Prog Music is a sign of this style is more and more powerful today. YES is one of my favorite bands but today Flower Kings released better records than YES.
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https://www.instagram.com/erifrog/
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johnobvious
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 11 2006
Location: Nebraska
Status: Offline
Points: 1361
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Posted: October 26 2006 at 11:06 |
Ghandi 2 wrote:
johnobvious wrote:
PA is chock full of Godspeed you Black Emperor and other post rock lovers but no one ever bashes them. And there are other non-melodic, less mainstream genres that you hear praised but rarely bashed. I hate post rock and a lot of Krautrock and other goofy areas are not my cup of tea. |
Post-Rock is not melodic!? Krautrock is not melodic!? I would like you to name a non-melodic genre.
People who are "hardcore" usually don't like mainstream stuff, and TFK are very mainstream prog. People don't bash, say, Trout Mask Replica or Tago Mago because they see that they simply don't "get" the album and/or it's not to their taste, so they know that bashing it will just get them made fun of because they are a prog neophyte. But we can bash TFK with impunity because they don't require 12+ listenings to understand. Hurrah! |
I would hardly call myself a neophyte. I "get" it and post rock does not interest me. There are plenty of threads gushing over Sigur Ros and GYBE that I have read but managed to refrain from saying "that stuff is crap." If I may speak for TFK fans on the site, we are tired of your bashing with (your word) impunity. I can tolerate well thought out criticism of TFK. They are like anyone else, people like them and people don't like them. But some of the comments go over the edge. When you have half the talent of Roine Stolt, then go ahead a let the full bore negativity fly. Otherwise, do something constructive.
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Biggles was in rehab last Saturday
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition
Joined: April 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3928
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Posted: October 26 2006 at 05:37 |
BePinkTheater wrote:
I love them. LOVE THEM.
everytime i hear somethign from them I am always blown away.
I understand that they sound like Yes. I understand that they have little original ideas in terms of sound or form, but that doesnt mean it is bad. I think people dismiss anything that is similar to something else.
This doesn't make sense to me. If you love Yes, shouldn't you love music that is similar to Yes?! instead, the elitists that make up most of our Prog Comunity feel the need to hate something that is similar to what they love. Now if that makes sense to you, you're f**king crazy...
But I guess that just means I can enjoy the music even more :) |
Well no. Isn't slavishly copying a band the complete opposite of 'progressive rock'? Perfectly understandable why some don't like such bands...Actually, I always rather felt The Flower Kings' sound is basically Yes, King Crimson and Focus. That said, they aren't so much of a clone like Starcastle- an example of a band that sound 'similar to Yes' and are hugely derided by many. Like I said, I really enjoyed their last album and their early stuff sounds good but when they do that ambling jazz stuff I turn off completely.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28085
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Posted: October 26 2006 at 02:20 |
BePinkTheater wrote:
I love them. LOVE THEM.
everytime i hear somethign from them I am always blown away.
I understand that they sound like Yes. I understand that they have little original ideas in terms of sound or form, but that doesnt mean it is bad. I think people dismiss anything that is similar to something else.
This doesn't make sense to me. If you love Yes, shouldn't you love music that is similar to Yes?! instead, the elitists that make up most of our Prog Comunity feel the need to hate something that is similar to what they love. Now if that makes sense to you, you're f**king crazy...
But I guess that just means I can enjoy the music even more :) |
Absolutely NO.I'm an ELP fan but I hate their German 'clone' Triumvirat.That said I'm not convinced that Flower Kings actually sound that much like Yes although there are occassional nods towards them.As I tried to explain earlier (in many words) they don't really do it for me anymore.You can fall in love and out of love with bands it seems.
Edited by richardh - October 26 2006 at 02:20
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The Miracle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: hell
Status: Offline
Points: 28427
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Posted: October 25 2006 at 19:07 |
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I wouldn't say I love them, but they're a good, quality band making good music. Certainly not the most innovative band out there and not the most challenging but that doesnt stop it form being enjoyable music, just appreciate them for what they are - it's not like they're playing the same exact music as earlier generations, they have their own style and I see no reason to hate them just because they're not John Zorn.
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Ghandi 2
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1494
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Posted: October 25 2006 at 19:03 |
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People don't like to feel that they're buying a cheap imitation. And eveyone doesn't like plagiarism. Is that feeling justified? I don't know; I haven't actually put any real time into listening to TFK, but it's how people feel.
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BePinkTheater
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 01 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1381
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Posted: October 25 2006 at 18:59 |
I love them. LOVE THEM.
everytime i hear somethign from them I am always blown away.
I understand that they sound like Yes. I understand that they have little original ideas in terms of sound or form, but that doesnt mean it is bad. I think people dismiss anything that is similar to something else.
This doesn't make sense to me. If you love Yes, shouldn't you love music that is similar to Yes?! instead, the elitists that make up most of our Prog Comunity feel the need to hate something that is similar to what they love. Now if that makes sense to you, you're f**king crazy...
But I guess that just means I can enjoy the music even more :)
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I can strangle a canary in a tin can and it would be really original, but that wouldn't save it from sounding like utter sh*t.
-Stone Beard
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Ghandi 2
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1494
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Posted: October 25 2006 at 18:53 |
johnobvious wrote:
PA is chock full of Godspeed you Black Emperor and other post rock lovers but no one ever bashes them. And there are other non-melodic, less mainstream genres that you hear praised but rarely bashed. I hate post rock and a lot of Krautrock and other goofy areas are not my cup of tea. |
Post-Rock is not melodic!? Krautrock is not melodic!? I would like you to name a non-melodic genre.
People who are "hardcore" usually don't like mainstream stuff, and TFK are very mainstream prog. People don't bash, say, Trout Mask Replica or Tago Mago because they see that they simply don't "get" the album and/or it's not to their taste, so they know that bashing it will just get them made fun of because they are a prog neophyte. But we can bash TFK with impunity because they don't require 12+ listenings to understand. Hurrah!
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Why many people dislike The Flower Kings
