Has Nationalism become a bad word? |
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lazland
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13700 |
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Okay, sorry to disagree yet again, but here we go. Singapore was created in the 19th century, so has not endured for ages. The country we now know as India was created after WWII, and had as its creation a huge amount of ethnic and nationalist strife. There was no national India prior to British rule. Russia, as we know it now, is also relatively modern, its borders stretching from Europe to Eastern Asia only manifesting themselves during the late Imperial era. Japan - now there is a country and imperial system which has stood the test of time, although with many internal divisions and wars. One of the reasons why the country has survived is owing to much of its history being literally disengaged from the wider world. Indeed, it is still a feature of Japanese nationalism that it was a mistake to open up its ports to America, and to abandon centuries of extremely strict racial purity and isolation. China is as old as a geographical entity, but there have been many changes over the millennia, with seismic contractions in how its peoples are ruled, but your point about its general borders is true. Two out of three, then, and five out of five which support my point regarding civilisations and empires falling.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10652 |
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I know a lot of people who hold local and state office, and my ex-wife, as a very active activist works with many state politicians, and fortunately, we do not know any crooks amongst the whole lot. |
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20630 |
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So true......
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20616 |
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11420 |
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How about an age limit while we're at it? Biden is starting to remind me of my Uncle Peter in his dotage who would often forget to wear pants when walking the dog or doing grocery shopping.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20616 |
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Yes, term limits for Congress is a must. And an age limit too. Some of these old geezers look as if they have to be carried into session. Age limits for the Supreme Court too.
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20630 |
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Well...I blame those who elected him..but that's another discussion. But term limits would be a good start to even things out and try to make things a bit more honest and responsible. IMHO those who are not in favor of them are probably either a politician , lawyer , or both.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20616 |
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20630 |
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Alas, those 'term limits' keep electing the same crooks over and over and ...well you get the drift. Maybe we need term limits on the people then..? But if those limits are good enough for the highest office why aren't they good enough for Congress ? Maybe the founding fathers made a few mistakes...? |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20616 |
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Yes, I'm aware of that, having come from a mixture of European backgrounds but I was referring to the bulwark countries that have endured for ages such as Russia, China, Japan, India, Singapore, etc. These countries have had more rulers and governments that few poeple really know about including various colonial powers. And guess what? They endured for millennias.
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11420 |
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I want this on a T-shirt
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lazland
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13700 |
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Actually, the majority of countries do not endure. The map of Europe is now significantly different to what it was even just a 100 years ago. The Middle East is unrecognisable to pre WWI. The majority of African countries are modern constructs post-colonialism. Ditto South America. When empires, countries, or political alliances fall, there is inevitably a reconstruction of the geographical borders. I might also add that nationalism in itself is extraordinarily illogical when based upon a construct of “racial purity”. This, of course, is because since the dawn of time, mankind has tended to copulate with other ape like creatures across civilisations. Globalisation in that context is hardly a new thing. By way of example, all of us have Neanderthal DNA within us, owing to a tendency of Homo Sapiens to shag their hairier cousins. If you were to meet me, you would instantly say I was a classic English professional male. To a point, yes, but my actual background is an interesting mixture of Maltese, Ashkenazi Jew, Northern English, and these within three generations. I am, I believe, pretty typical. As with all other aspects of humanity, as I keep banging on about, nothing is straightforward or simple. It is one of the reasons I enjoy doing the PABT so much - to learn about, and to take great pleasure from, the sheer range and absurdity of the apes who are, for now, the dominant species on planet Earth.
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Spaciousmind
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 07 2020 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 724 |
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Now you are stretching it lol... Have you followed world maps over the past few hundred years? LOL
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10652 |
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Re the aforementioned term limits: We already have term limits in the US, they are called elections.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20616 |
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Strangely, governments pass away but the countries endure. That's a bit of nationalism for you.
Edited by SteveG - April 13 2021 at 11:26 |
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lazland
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13700 |
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The EU will collapse. So will the UK. So will the US. And so on, and so forth. Basic lesson number one from history is that all systems of government collapse. This can either be done by gentle progression, or, far more frequently, by war, revolution, civil war, and other forms of bloody change. I might add, by the way, that one of the historical harbingers of such collapse has been a vast increase in bureaucracy, centralisation of government, petty rules, attempting to infuse indigenous populations with outside society and influences against the popular will. Sound familiar?
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20630 |
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I agree Steve. There is no real interest in reforming the legislative bodies in the US. As you said none of them would pass laws or amend the current system because it's not in their best interest; though of course it would be in the best interest of the people they represent. We should have term limits just like there are on the President. That way there would not be 'careerist politicians ' as tsziramy mentioned. But sadly people are not very enlightened so it seems. Not to bring spirituality into the discussion but J Krishnamurti once said, "Nothing will chnage for the better until there is a fundamental change in the very nature of human consciousness." btw...'nationalism' is not the problem.....people are. |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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Hiram
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 30 2009 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 2084 |
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It'll be interesting to see if in the years (decades actually) to come European Union will collapse. It's obviously big exaggeration to call it a tyranny, but there are people who think and/or feel that way. This may be slightly off topic and just my personal experience that doesn't have anything to do with anything, but anyway, re: anarchists. I've personally known two people who defined themselves as anarchists and were very vocal of their persuasion. They both were the most bitter and hateful individuals I've ever known.
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11420 |
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I don't think your perspective overly cynical at all. The political class have always publicly supported education but covertly despised it as it reduces their ability to have an electorate do their bidding e.g. to go to war, vote for them, target scapegoats for all societal ills etc Education can really only teach us at best, self awareness and critical thinking. Most politicians usually offer us (imaginary) rights but seldom our very real moral obligation not to be complete self serving dicks.
Edited by ExittheLemming - April 13 2021 at 11:05 |
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10652 |
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Well, short answer, I agree with you, but, an oppressed people banding together for whatever reason is far more complex than mere nationalism. I think the salient factor in this situation is trying to throw off the shackles of the oppressor. Once again, someone who cared less about an Indian state could have joined the fight against the British just because it was the right thing to do. |
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