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moshkito View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

Originally posted by BarryGlibb BarryGlibb wrote:

I do give a flying f***. If a band is derivative, then I will not enjoy the music. Pretty simple really.

I truly can't wrap my brain around that. Anything derivative is unenjoyable to you? Does that apply beyond music? 

The comment is crazy, in my book ... so he can't possibly enjoy any music, because ALL symphonic stuff, that most "progressive" music ... IS ... is derivative of the early days of Mozart, and others ... so we're talking almost 400 years ... I would think that Barry guy has been doping too much and has not heard a lot of music at all to comment like that ... since he only likes 5 hits and 4 bands, is my take!

Confused

Embarrassed

PS: Not to be mean, but sometimes I really would like to delete some comments! They just don't make any sense AS STATED!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

What is derivative and what isnt? To dimiss every symphonic prog realease after 1977 as derivative is ludicrous. People are mistaking INFLUENCE for DERIVATION in these arguments...surely...
It really doesn't matter to me whether an album is considered "derivative" or not. All that matters to me is whether I like it or not. Smile
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What is derivative and what isnt? To dimiss every symphonic prog realease after 1977 as derivative is ludicrous. People are mistaking INFLUENCE for DERIVATION in these arguments...surely...
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Jeffro View Drop Down
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Originally posted by ForestFriend ForestFriend wrote:

Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

I really don't give a flying fornicate whether a band lacks soul or is derivative. What matters most is do I like the music. Is it pleasing to my ears. Do I connect with it or does it effect me in some emotional way. 

I don't get why some people dismiss bands for reasons that go beyond, and have nothing at all to do with, the enjoyment of the music. I can't imagine hearing a song that I like but then dismissing it because it lacks soul. Confused


I suppose if someone says a band "lacks soul", it could be their way of saying they can't connect emotionally with the music. Granted, I've noticed a trend (especially amongst musicians, most likely jealous ones) for people to dismiss anything on the basis of it being too fast or complex, which I think is stupid. There's more to emotion than a slow blues.

I do agree about the derivative comment... It seems on here, as soon as a band uses a Mellotron and a Hammond organ they're retro prog. But it's fine if they're using heavy distorted guitars because no prog band has ever done that before...

I don't know. It sounds all very elitist to me and just an excuse to look down your nose at things you disdain because... elitism.  [haughty] Oh no, I can't enjoy that song, it's derivative! Harumph! Harumph! [/haughty] Perhaps that doesn't apply to BarryGlibb. However, it absolutely does apply to some here

What? Elitism on a prog music message board? The Devil you say!!  Wink


Edited by Jeffro - November 15 2019 at 06:53
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Jeffro View Drop Down
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Originally posted by BarryGlibb BarryGlibb wrote:

I do give a flying f***. If a band is derivative, then I will not enjoy the music. Pretty simple really.

I truly can't wrap my brain around that. Anything derivative is unenjoyable to you? Does that apply beyond music? 
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Dellinger View Drop Down
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Gentle Giant after Octopus (or actually, almost besides their first two albums).
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

...
extending everything doesn't make it better
...

Agreed that it is not the difference between it being better or not.

My take is that the conceptual nature of the work is haphazard and not as well done as it needed to be and kinda was in TLLDOB ... but it was quickly dumped when PG left the band ... according to that center piece on PG leaving the band, that he was disappointed with the support and the idea for what was a really nice and valuable concept, with a lot of literary ideas and concerns, that rock music and its fanboys love to say are crap!

When compared to ANGE, Genesis is not one half the talent for concept and ideas ... and music that is far more with it, than just a pop song, or some cutesy this and that to look cool for an audience.

But, rock fans don't understand "extending" anything, and if they had their way, Beethoven's 5th would be 9 minutes only, Tchaikovsky's Pastoral would be 6 minutes long, and Bolero would be 2 minutes long. And Wagner? Ohhhhh my gawd ... cut the operas in half and it's still too long! Music? What music?

Extending something is sometimes an idea that is in the piece of music for CONTINUITY and allow its story to develop in your mind ... let's try the opening of Act 2 in TOSCA ... take that out and the story is cut up ... you don't get the meaning and ideas of that opening ... the guy being taken to jail, and then you get to hear the aria ... it sets up the whole thing beautifully ... but rock fans are not folks that use THEIR IMAGINATION, see? They have to have lyrics to tell them what is happening in the music ... so "extending" anything, as you suggest, ends up in the trash ... what is commonly called "pearls before swine".
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
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Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Originally posted by BarryGlibb BarryGlibb wrote:

Genesis - I tried but......

Yes - I do not care for Jon Anderson's high pitched voice and most of it does not really do it for me.

Gryphon - on the whole.......silly medieval roobish.

Camel - I could only take so much

Caravan - some stuff is OK but after a while I said "No"

Porcupine Tree - derivative in lots of ways...also no soul (hard to explain this)

Dream Theater - absolutely no soul and clever-clever to the point of nausea

Barry Gibb and dislike of high pitched vocal eh? Ironic? No?
 
I think Barry is being glib. Wink
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Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
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Every album by King Crimson after their first album. Smile
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BarryGlibb View Drop Down
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Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Originally posted by BarryGlibb BarryGlibb wrote:

Genesis - I tried but......

Yes - I do not care for Jon Anderson's high pitched voice and most of it does not really do it for me.

Gryphon - on the whole.......silly medieval roobish.

Camel - I could only take so much

Caravan - some stuff is OK but after a while I said "No"

Porcupine Tree - derivative in lots of ways...also no soul (hard to explain this)

Dream Theater - absolutely no soul and clever-clever to the point of nausea

Barry Gibb and dislike of high pitched vocal eh? Ironic? No?


I'm BarryGlibb not Gibb. Glib as in "speaking in a very smooth, easy way, which may appear to be insincere." Yes, I am being ironic with my avatar!
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BarryGlibb View Drop Down
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Points: 1781 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BarryGlibb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2019 at 03:36
Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

I really don't give a flying fornicate whether a band lacks soul or is derivative. What matters most is do I like the music. Is it pleasing to my ears. Do I connect with it or does it effect me in some emotional way. 

I don't get why some people dismiss bands for reasons that go beyond, and have nothing at all to do with, the enjoyment of the music. I can't imagine hearing a song that I like but then dismissing it because it lacks soul. Confused

I do give a flying f***. If a band is derivative, then I will not enjoy the music. Pretty simple really.
As for "soul", well, that's one's own personal interpretation...maybe I should have used a different term other than "soul" maybe "feeling" .........if you don't feel or connect with an artist, well you just don't connect.
Some people love Donald Trump; others don't.
Some people love Greta Thunberg; others don't.
Some people love ABBA; others don't
Some people love Dream Theatre; others don't.
That's what makes the world an interesting place (I think).


Edited by BarryGlibb - November 14 2019 at 03:36
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ForestFriend View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

I really don't give a flying fornicate whether a band lacks soul or is derivative. What matters most is do I like the music. Is it pleasing to my ears. Do I connect with it or does it effect me in some emotional way. 

I don't get why some people dismiss bands for reasons that go beyond, and have nothing at all to do with, the enjoyment of the music. I can't imagine hearing a song that I like but then dismissing it because it lacks soul. Confused


I suppose if someone says a band "lacks soul", it could be their way of saying they can't connect emotionally with the music. Granted, I've noticed a trend (especially amongst musicians, most likely jealous ones) for people to dismiss anything on the basis of it being too fast or complex, which I think is stupid. There's more to emotion than a slow blues.

I do agree about the derivative comment... It seems on here, as soon as a band uses a Mellotron and a Hammond organ they're retro prog. But it's fine if they're using heavy distorted guitars because no prog band has ever done that before...
My prog band - Boreal Kinship
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Jeffro View Drop Down
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Enchant. They do nothing for me. I checked them out after Ted Leonard joined Spock's Beard.

I think I've been able to find three Enchant songs that I like but that's it. Like you, I didn't check them out until after Ted joined SB. I just don't think he's the right fit for SB. Bring back Nick D and jettison Ted.

Never been able to get into.. 
Van Der Graff 
Henry Cow (WTF???) 
Beefheart (double WTF????) 
Uriah Heap (just doesn't click for whatever reason)
Gentle Giant (other than Power And The Glory)
Marillion
Flower Kings
Neal Morse (solo and projects. Love Spock's Beard with him though)
most Zappa (There, I said it)
and most prog metal bands. 


Edited by Jeffro - November 13 2019 at 10:31
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Jeffro View Drop Down
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I really don't give a flying fornicate whether a band lacks soul or is derivative. What matters most is do I like the music. Is it pleasing to my ears. Do I connect with it or does it effect me in some emotional way. 

I don't get why some people dismiss bands for reasons that go beyond, and have nothing at all to do with, the enjoyment of the music. I can't imagine hearing a song that I like but then dismissing it because it lacks soul. Confused




Edited by Jeffro - November 13 2019 at 10:23
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M27Barney View Drop Down
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Originally posted by BarryGlibb BarryGlibb wrote:

Genesis - I tried but......

Yes - I do not care for Jon Anderson's high pitched voice and most of it does not really do it for me.

Gryphon - on the whole.......silly medieval roobish.

Camel - I could only take so much

Caravan - some stuff is OK but after a while I said "No"

Porcupine Tree - derivative in lots of ways...also no soul (hard to explain this)

Dream Theater - absolutely no soul and clever-clever to the point of nausea

Barry Gibb and dislike of high pitched vocal eh? Ironic? No?

Edited by M27Barney - November 13 2019 at 06:17
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BarryGlibb View Drop Down
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Genesis - I tried but......

Yes - I do not care for Jon Anderson's high pitched voice and most of it does not really do it for me.

Gryphon - on the whole.......silly medieval roobish.

Camel - I could only take so much

Caravan - some stuff is OK but after a while I said "No"

Porcupine Tree - derivative in lots of ways...also no soul (hard to explain this)

Dream Theater - absolutely no soul and clever-clever to the point of nausea
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ProgMetaller2112 View Drop Down
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I said Crimson in an earlier but just remembered how Dream Theater doesn't do much for me. They're so much of an afterthought that I didn't think of them 😂🤣

Edited by ProgMetaller2112 - November 13 2019 at 03:14
“War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.”

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"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart
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I'm afraid to say, considering how many people fawn over him, but Steven Wilson/Porcupine Tree. 

I have really, really tried as well, and some songs I don't mind (Routine, Trains) but overall his songs put me to sleep. Unhappy

Also, I tried getting into Marillion but just can't. I'm still expecting to suddenly "get it" one day and fall in love with them. Hasn't happened yet..
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Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
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^^ Great story! I love it and I can almost believe it's true. LOL ^^
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

...Who are "GDGG"?


Glam der Graaf Generator starring the lovely and talented Peter Glammill.





 
Thanks Logan. I'm guessing they must be a Van der Graaf Generator tribute band. Tongue


In 1939 it was the opening act for Ham der Graaf Generator (of H to He Who Ham the Only One and Pork Hearts fame) with Porky Hammill and Hugh Bacon.

Ham der Graaf Generator is notorious for an incident when one of their props, a huge inflatable pig floating near Battersea Power Station, became unmoored and collided with a Graf Zeppelin carrying important German dignitaries, including Reichsführer Heinrich Hammler, in early September of 1939, which in turn collided with a Lead Zeppelin carrying a Bavarian folk music band (that band had had hits with "Whole Lotta Liebe" and "Over The Hills und Heil Hitler"). Despite the Lead Zeppelin sinking like, well like a lead balloon, the occupants survived, but were left feeling very dazed and confused. This porcine mishap led to a long and protracted war as well an epic battle of the bands.

Van der Graaf Generator may have been inspired by this historical incident, as well as some other bands perhaps.
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