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Topic ClosedWhy dont many girls like prog?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2017 at 07:33
Glad to see the forum hasn't changed...

LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2017 at 21:05
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by NateHevens NateHevens wrote:

Originally posted by Thatfabulousalien Thatfabulousalien wrote:

Coincidentally I saw a thread on a classical forum asking "what aren't there any 'great' female composers?" 

This is a problem outside of just prog, the only genres where woman seem to get their just deserts is pop, country and folk. Something is really not right about that. 



Actually, there's a very large and growing community of women getting recognition in Blues, Punk, Grunge, and Metal as well.

To be honest, I know a lot of women who love prog. It was a group of women who introduced me to Steven Wilson and Porcupine Tree, and just a month ago, I sat down and listened to ELP's album Trilogy, on vinyl, with a group of five other people (not including me)... I was the only man in the group, and the album belonged to one of the other women (though I do own my own copy). We let the music wash over us, occasionally discussing music theory, timing, and so on in context of the songs.

Where I find the disconnect is that, no matter how hard I try, I can't find any women who play Prog.

I listen to so many women guitarists, but they all play Blues, or Folk, or Metal, or Grunge, or Punk... I'm still searching for a woman who takes her cues from David Gilmour, or Steven Wilson, or Steve Howe, or even Jimi Hendrix...

The only women guitarists I listen to who don't really play Blues, Folk, Metal, Punk, or Grunge (and that's debatable) are Ava Mendoza, Anna Calvi, Kaki King, Marnie Stern, and St. Vincent... but they aren't Prog, either. There is one guitarist who plays... not Prog, but experimental guitar... Wata from the Japanese Experimental Noise/Sludge Metal band Boris.

And while I know women who's skills on the piano are beyond amazing, they either play Classical, Pop, Rock, Blues, R&B, or Hip Hop.

Same idea with women I know who are drummers, bassists, etc. I know and/or listen to so many talented musicians who are women, yet the only women I can find in prog are vocalists... and that's it.

I think there's a woman playing in Steve Hackett's touring band... guitar I think. But still, I don't think it's a very prominent role, since you know who will play the more prominent guitar role. Now, about women getting a bigger role on certain genres... I wonder how many of them actually write their songs... or even do more than just sing.

Outside of Pop, I'd say that most of them do. In Rap, Hip Hop, and R&B, you actually have to at least be the most prominent part of your writing team to get any major respect within the community (it's a massive insult to say a Rap, Hip Hop, and/or R&B artist has ghost writers; which I realize seems odd considering sampling and all that, but sampling is considered part of the writing process in this context; please note that I'm not offering any opinions on the genres or artists, here). And it's a largely accepted convention in Rock, Blues, and Metal that you write your own music, or if you have a writing team, that writing team is your band.

I know for a fact that guitarists like Chantel McGregor (Blues guitarist and singer/songwriter), Anna Calvi, Ava Mendoza, Kaki King, Marnie Stern, etc write their own music. Sometimes they have writing partners, but rarely, if ever, do they perform a song written by someone else, unless they're performing a cover (like when Chantel covers Led Zeppelin's Tea for One live... she probably has the most writing partners, but I know she writes most of her lyrics and solos and riffs herself; the partners will write drums and such).

As for women who are vocalists in Prog... I don't know as much, but it honestly wouldn't surprise me if they did write at least some of the songs they sing, if not being a constant part of the writing process for all the music.

I think Pop is the only genre where the artist not writing their own songs is the convention.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2017 at 20:15
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by NateHevens NateHevens wrote:

[QUOTE=Thatfabulousalien]Coincidentally I saw a thread on a classical forum asking "what aren't there any 'great' female composers?" 

This is a problem outside of just prog, the only genres where woman seem to get their just deserts is pop, country and folk. Something is really not right about that. 


I think there's a woman playing in Steve Hackett's touring band... guitar I think. But still, I don't think it's a very prominent role, since you know who will play the more prominent guitar role. Now, about women getting a bigger role on certain genres... I wonder how many of them actually write their songs... or even do more than just sing.

When I saw Hackett live, there was no woman on guitar... Does she play a big role in his concerts?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2017 at 19:27
Originally posted by NateHevens NateHevens wrote:

Originally posted by Thatfabulousalien Thatfabulousalien wrote:

Coincidentally I saw a thread on a classical forum asking "what aren't there any 'great' female composers?" 

This is a problem outside of just prog, the only genres where woman seem to get their just deserts is pop, country and folk. Something is really not right about that. 



Actually, there's a very large and growing community of women getting recognition in Blues, Punk, Grunge, and Metal as well.

To be honest, I know a lot of women who love prog. It was a group of women who introduced me to Steven Wilson and Porcupine Tree, and just a month ago, I sat down and listened to ELP's album Trilogy, on vinyl, with a group of five other people (not including me)... I was the only man in the group, and the album belonged to one of the other women (though I do own my own copy). We let the music wash over us, occasionally discussing music theory, timing, and so on in context of the songs.

Where I find the disconnect is that, no matter how hard I try, I can't find any women who play Prog.

I listen to so many women guitarists, but they all play Blues, or Folk, or Metal, or Grunge, or Punk... I'm still searching for a woman who takes her cues from David Gilmour, or Steven Wilson, or Steve Howe, or even Jimi Hendrix...

The only women guitarists I listen to who don't really play Blues, Folk, Metal, Punk, or Grunge (and that's debatable) are Ava Mendoza, Anna Calvi, Kaki King, Marnie Stern, and St. Vincent... but they aren't Prog, either. There is one guitarist who plays... not Prog, but experimental guitar... Wata from the Japanese Experimental Noise/Sludge Metal band Boris.

And while I know women who's skills on the piano are beyond amazing, they either play Classical, Pop, Rock, Blues, R&B, or Hip Hop.

Same idea with women I know who are drummers, bassists, etc. I know and/or listen to so many talented musicians who are women, yet the only women I can find in prog are vocalists... and that's it.
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I think there's a woman playing in Steve Hackett's touring band... guitar I think. But still, I don't think it's a very prominent role, since you know who will play the more prominent guitar role. Now, about women getting a bigger role on certain genres... I wonder how many of them actually write their songs... or even do more than just sing.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2017 at 14:19
So many responses here to laugh at (not with). And this thread apparently has legs. The answer is ... : Women in my sadly limited experience like music that's simple. It's as simple as that.
"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2017 at 13:11
Originally posted by Mormegil Mormegil wrote:

I don't know - maybe you can't dance to it? Sorry, that might be stereotyping (or not).

No offense, but I can totally dance to most prog I listen to. Up to and including Opeth.  ;)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2017 at 13:07
MOTHER SUPERIOR JUMPED THE GUN: UNKNOWN ALL FEMALE PROG ROCK GROUP FROM THE 1970S

One of the first all-girl rock groups—and they were “prog rockers” at that—the UK-based Mother Superior recorded just one album in 1975 before going their separate ways. Apparently it was only released in Sweden.

From Prog Archives:

UK band MOTHER SUPERIOR was formed in the summer of 1974, when bassist Jackie Badger turns up for an audition to join UK band Cosmetix and finds the main members of that band in an almighty row that ends their history there and then. She opts to hook up Jackie Crew and Audrey Swinburne now formerly of Cosmetix, and through and ad in Melody Maker New Zealand musician Lesley Sly becomes the final member of the new band, and following a long session involving substantial amounts of alcohol they come up with the band name Mother Superior.

The band is actively gigging whenever and wherever they can, performing in pubs, at air-force bases and later on a number of gigs in Central Europe follows. While they do build up a regular fanbase, the UK record labels aren’t overly keen on signing this all girl band. As bassist Jackie Brewster revealed in her blog: “One night at the Golden Lion, the place is rammed with an audience of men and women, Sony have sent an A and R man down who says to us after two encores, that he can’t see who our market is, women would be jealous of us and men wouldn’t buy our records because their girlfriends wouldn’t like it. “

At that point in time this isn’t a great concern for the band. They have recorded their debut album in the usual manner of a new band their label doesn’t really think too much of - late night sessions handled by inexperienced studio techs promising that “it will be all right in the mix”. The album is subsequently released on a small Swedish label attached to their own label Polydor, which does give the band a good reason to tour Scandinavia the following year. That their label chose to call the album “Lady Madonna” just one more decision made that wasn’t approved by the band members.

Following extensive gigging, a label not really believing in the band, the usual on the road hassles and management problems, line-up alterations and day to day problems became the order of the day for Mother Superior. They decided to call it quits in 1977, their final gig performed on December 9th.

Seen here on an unknown TV show, the band does an original, almost Yes-like take on the Stephen Stills classic, “Love the One You’re With.” (Here’s a link to their interesting cover of the Beatles’ “Lady Madonna.”)
 



Edited by SteveG - May 01 2017 at 13:09
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2017 at 13:06
This has been the story of my life! So I grew up in Minneapolis, and moved here to Seattle only 2 years ago, when I was 40. I am very glad to report that at the Rush R40 show in 2015, and again just 2 nights ago at the Kansas show, I saw many more fellow female fans than I'm used to. I think a lot of it is sociological: The more gender-traditional your location, the less likely women are to do things unexpected of us. It is sad, to me at least, but I have seen many other examples of this throughout my life. I was the only woman I knew who went out for a bite to eat or a drink by myself, when I still lived in Mpls.; and that is also not the case here. Straight men are less freaked out by my behavior here. I could go on and on...

I have to add, I saw Yes alone in 1991 in downtown Minneapolis though, and trust me -- the situation now could be way, way worse.  xD
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2017 at 11:10
^You should check out Japanese symph proggers Ars Nova. All girl band.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2017 at 11:04
Originally posted by Thatfabulousalien Thatfabulousalien wrote:

Coincidentally I saw a thread on a classical forum asking "what aren't there any 'great' female composers?" 

This is a problem outside of just prog, the only genres where woman seem to get their just deserts is pop, country and folk. Something is really not right about that. 

Actually, there's a very large and growing community of women getting recognition in Blues, Punk, Grunge, and Metal as well.

To be honest, I know a lot of women who love prog. It was a group of women who introduced me to Steven Wilson and Porcupine Tree, and just a month ago, I sat down and listened to ELP's album Trilogy, on vinyl, with a group of five other people (not including me)... I was the only man in the group, and the album belonged to one of the other women (though I do own my own copy). We let the music wash over us, occasionally discussing music theory, timing, and so on in context of the songs.

Where I find the disconnect is that, no matter how hard I try, I can't find any women who play Prog.

I listen to so many women guitarists, but they all play Blues, or Folk, or Metal, or Grunge, or Punk... I'm still searching for a woman who takes her cues from David Gilmour, or Steven Wilson, or Steve Howe, or even Jimi Hendrix...

The only women guitarists I listen to who don't really play Blues, Folk, Metal, Punk, or Grunge (and that's debatable) are Ava Mendoza, Anna Calvi, Kaki King, Marnie Stern, and St. Vincent... but they aren't Prog, either. There is one guitarist who plays... not Prog, but experimental guitar... Wata from the Japanese Experimental Noise/Sludge Metal band Boris.

And while I know women who's skills on the piano are beyond amazing, they either play Classical, Pop, Rock, Blues, R&B, or Hip Hop.

Same idea with women I know who are drummers, bassists, etc. I know and/or listen to so many talented musicians who are women, yet the only women I can find in prog are vocalists... and that's it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2017 at 09:08
My wife likes some prog... Steven Wilson, Pineapple Thief, The Dear Hunter and Haken. But honestly, it's due to the music being prog but also very "catchy" in a commercial sense. So her ear picks up on really good songrwriting sans it being prog. Does that make sense? Off-the-charts prog to her though, "sounds like Castlevania" to which I reply, "cool".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2017 at 13:14
Originally posted by mechanicalflattery mechanicalflattery wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:


*spits beer on monitor*

ahhh.. well named I suppose LOL

speaking of..  another topic far more interesting than why more women don't hang out at PA's.. which is really what these threads really boil down to.

What is the collaboration between liking prog (or hanging out at PA's if you will) and being cat fanatics.  Lord have mercy this forum is full of cat lovers. None more so than my dear wife LOLHeart

prog-listening and cat ownership are inextricably linked to higher intelligence and/or cultural sophistication. Surely dogs and pop music are for the plebeian masses, those that seek immediate gratification, while only the intellectual elite can understand the importance of a ten minute masturbatory keyboard solo or of an animal that stares blankly at the corner for 5 hours before tearing your couch to shreds. These are enriching experiences that the peasantry will never know, bound eternally within their own ignorance and shortsightedness. 


hah.....well said! LOLClap Submissiveness sucks.. in pets, men and women.  Dogs are for losers... anything someone can mistreat and still comes back and loves you is pathetic. LOL Any cat owner can tell you stories of how they somehow pissed off their cat and found cat sh*t on their pillow.  Now that is character man....


Don't f**k with cats.. .they rule.. they really don't deserve proggers but at least they can appreciate them and at least try to understand them.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2017 at 12:59
Originally posted by aglasshouse aglasshouse wrote:

Different strokes for different folks. Girls'll like prog if they like it, simple as that. If the majority don't then whatever, that's fine.
I find this level of bliss extraordinary. Maybe it's my behavioral science background, but I find that answer (not unique in this thread) to be no answer at all.




Edited by HackettFan - April 29 2017 at 13:20
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2017 at 11:56
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:


*spits beer on monitor*

ahhh.. well named I suppose LOL

speaking of..  another topic far more interesting than why more women don't hang out at PA's.. which is really what these threads really boil down to.

What is the collaboration between liking prog (or hanging out at PA's if you will) and being cat fanatics.  Lord have mercy this forum is full of cat lovers. None more so than my dear wife LOLHeart

Let's not go down that route, before someone inevitably tries to argue that both prog-listening and cat ownership are inextricably linked to higher intelligence and/or cultural sophistication. Surely dogs and pop music are for the plebeian masses, those that seek immediate gratification, while only the intellectual elite can understand the importance of a ten minute masturbatory keyboard solo or of an animal that stares blankly at the corner for 5 hours before tearing your couch to shreds. These are enriching experiences that the peasantry will never know, bound eternally within their own ignorance and shortsightedness. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2017 at 11:43
Different strokes for different folks. Girls'll like prog if they like it, simple as that. If the majority don't then whatever, that's fine.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2017 at 10:37
My ten-year old daughter loves Prog. She has seen Ian Anderson, Steven Wilson, Dream Theater, Persephone's Dream, and a couple Pink Floyd Tribute bands. My wife likes some of it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2017 at 08:23
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

The female cat I am currently fostering seems to enjoy prog more than the male cat I had for many years


now that would be a fascinating detour for this thread ..  we all think we know about the differences between men and women... but male and female cats?? Who really knows what cats think.. much less female cats LOL

Her name is Catrina...discuss


*spits beer on monitor*

ahhh.. well named I suppose LOL

speaking of..  another topic far more interesting than why more women don't hang out at PA's.. which is really what these threads really boil down to.

What is the collaboration between liking prog (or hanging out at PA's if you will) and being cat fanatics.  Lord have mercy this forum is full of cat lovers. None more so than my dear wife LOLHeart


Edited by micky - April 29 2017 at 08:24
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2017 at 04:01
^ .....actually, looking back, please don't ask what that previous post was all about.......
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2017 at 02:46
I think you're all tucked ............
.............any skeletons, any skeletons, any skeletons in the closet..............
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2017 at 02:37
I once dated a girl who liked Van Der Graaf Generator (although no other Prog) but she was a complete basket case. She said it was just Hamill's anguished voice that she enjoyed. Her second favourite band was Smokie. Women....?
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