Should the Beach Boys be considered Proto?

^ I think arguing for 'Good Vibrations' as progressive or even protoprog is tenuous at best.   What I would say is that it appears on Smiley Smile, an otherwise unhinged and thoroughly irreverent album.

NYSPORTSFAN wrote: Atavachron wrote: NYSPORTSFAN wrote: I think we all respect Brian Wilson but they are not proto-prog IMO. Pet Sounds while progressive has hardly has any rock elements, Smile was not released until way after the fact and Smiley Smile is disjointed. Another fact is The Beach Boys relied heavily on another musicians to play their instrumental parts. "Smile" was never released except as a nostalgic semi-official 'collectors release' years later (unless you mean Brian Wilson Presents Smile), but the session tapes Wilson had made for "Smile" were circulating not long after recording began.   Smiley Smile is indeed disjointed.   So what?   What does that have to do with being or not being protoprog?   It was among the first American avantgarde rock albums in history. With your premise I guess The Velvet Underground should be proto-prog as their first couple of albums were avant-garde/rock albums and minimalistic?

There is no 'premise' and I have no agenda.   Artists are not added to PA because they compare well with other artists deemed progressive.   The Beach Boys were a rock band that was, or became, an art-rock band.   If that bothers you, tough.

SteveG wrote: NYSPORTSFAN wrote: I think we all respect Brian Wilson but they are not proto-prog IMO. Pet Sounds while progressive has hardly has any rock elements, Smile was not released until way after the fact and Smiley Smile is disjointed. Another fact is The Beach Boys relied heavily on another musicians to play their instrumental parts. The comparison to The Beatles fails miserably as they were doing the heavy hitting with Rubber Soul, Revolver, Strawberry Fields Forever/Penny Lane, Sgt. Peppers, Magical Mystery Tour, The White Album and Abbey Road. Another point is let's look at Revolver diversity which The Beach Boys never even approached on one album and of course is progressive. There is nothing in the Beach Boys catalog as progressive or innovative as "Tomorrow Never Knows" or "Strawberry Fields Forever" "Taxman' proto hard rock/funk, "Love You To" World Music, "Eleanor Rigby" classical, "For No One (Lieder/Art Song), "I'm Only Sleeping" psych/folk, "She Said She Said" Acid Rock", "And Your Bird Can Sing" Power Pop/ Twin Guitar Leads, "Yellow Submarine" Psych Novelty Song", "Got to Get You Into My Life" psych/soul and "Tomorrow Never Knows" basically invents a couple of genres IMO. When someone says The Beach Boys are proto-prog please give me a break. Good Vibrations was the epitome of Proto prog. You have had your break, now go take another.

I'm sorry, Steve, but claiming Good Vibrations is proto-prog is almost as ridiculous as saying Velvet Underground was prog. Almost.

Good Vibrations is surf music with a theremin thrown in. That doesn't constitute proto-prog.

Atavachron wrote: NYSPORTSFAN wrote: I think we all respect Brian Wilson but they are not proto-prog IMO. Pet Sounds while progressive has hardly has any rock elements, Smile was not released until way after the fact and Smiley Smile is disjointed. Another fact is The Beach Boys relied heavily on another musicians to play their instrumental parts. "Smile" was never released except as a nostalgic semi-official 'collectors release' years later (unless you mean Brian Wilson Presents Smile), but the session tapes Wilson had made for "Smile" were circulating not long after recording began.   Smiley Smile is indeed disjointed.   So what?   What does that have to do with being or not being protoprog?   It was among the first American avantgarde rock albums in history.

With your premise I guess The Velvet Underground should be proto-prog as their first couple of albums were avant-garde/rock albums and minimalistic?

The Beach Boys were progressive as far as surf music goes, and they took the California beach sound to its utter limits. However, I would never mistake them for a proto-prog rock band.

Interrestingly, Jim DeRogatis difinitive book (by anyone's standards) titled Turn On Your Mind: Four Decades of Great Psychedelic Rock,  published 2003, lists the Beach Boys as  first in the book as a psychedelic American rock group with particular emphasis on the song Good Vibrations (the use of the Electro-Therimin, psychedelic lyrics, choral and organ break, etc.) along with a description of the experimental approach to the ill fated Smile album.  While that album went defunct for a number of well know reasons, DeRogatis does expand on the salvaged Smiley Smile.

"Some of the songs that had been on Smile were recorded for Smiley Smile in different versions "Heroes and Villians, Wonderful. Wind Chimes and Vegetables, while a few new tracks were freshly recorded and tacked on ( the best is Brian's With Me Tonight; the worst being She's Going Bald. The harmoney vocals hold the spotlight through out and the result is not unlike what Hendrix called "a psychedelic barbershop quartet". He meant it as an insult but it's an Intruiging concept nonetheless and takes nothing away from the psychedelic intent of the Smiley Smile album, and indeed supports it."

 Early Experimental Psychedelic Rock=Proto Prog

 Smiley Smile=Proto Prog.












"Doing the right thing is never superfluous."


Edited by SteveG - September 13 2014 at 09:42

SteveG wrote: (...) And the funny thing is, is that I don't even like the Beach Boys!

Edited by Svetonio - September 12 2014 at 06:27

If the Beatles are, then yes. Whatever the reasoning was for them, go with that. 'Smile' is certainly more progressive than any Beatles album.

 

Edited by Padraic - September 11 2014 at 11:58