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M@X View Drop Down
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Points: 4051 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2009 at 22:05
I also think it's better now .... i'd like to hear more comments, maybe about the genre experts too ?!
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Points: 14050 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2009 at 14:57
I just had a look at the top 100 and i think it's much more accurate now then it was before.  I think it's more realistic.  Nice job Max!Clap
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Points: 13794 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2009 at 14:10
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Points: 4051 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2009 at 12:52
I think I did the final tweaks now, please use and comments the TOP PROG ALBUM tool and check the sub-genre TOP 20 studios album for anomalies and report please.

...now back to FISHed Marillion's era music
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2009 at 12:26
^ I agree - I often look at them and think "Oh, I haven't got that, I wonder what it's like and why it's so popular?" - the reviews often answer those questions, but it's the ratings and chart position that draws my attention to them.
What?
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Points: 32553 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2009 at 12:23
I don't lose sleep over what albums are where personally, but I know that when I was new to this site years ago, those top twenty lists were extremely important to me, because they were an "at a glance" guide for "what to buy next" with limited funds.

The reviews are of course far more informative and useful, but even to this day I still use the top 20 lists for each genre as a broad way to keep in mind albums I should look toward purchasing next.
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2009 at 12:18
Originally posted by M@X M@X wrote:

Kansas back , Tales gone from the TOP 20 Symph.

Sorry , still tweaking the algo.
 
That's my point my friend, you are breaking your back on this, and honestly, what's the problem with Kansas being 20 or 30?
 
I know you have a lot of issues to worry about, yes, let's have the best possible system, if you agree lets add the 0.5 stars, but if not.....Also great, we have the chance to write our reviews and give our honest rating as nowhere else, in most places only a small elite is able to revioew, here we all can....What else can we ask?.
 
Thank you M@X for everything
 
Iván 
            
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Points: 4051 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2009 at 12:14
Kansas back , Tales gone from the TOP 20 Symph.

Sorry , still tweaking the algo.
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2009 at 12:08
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Tales from Topographic Oceans is in the top 20 symph now?  Shocked

Too bad Kansas fell off.  Cry

 
Good point, I find Tales boring and lame in comparison with other Yes albums, but i won't like it more because it's a top 20, i choose any Kansas album, despite the place it is over tales any day.
 
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2009 at 12:06
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I believe that for a bunch of people who follow an unpopular genre which rarely is presented in charts, we care damn too much for the top list.
 
When i invite somebody to PA I don't tell him/her "Check the ratings", I tell them "Read the reviews".
 
Iván
 


You're always on a crucade against the ratings ... I think that's going a bit too far. Reviews should be more important than ratings at PA, but I don't think ignoring the ratings completely is the way to go.
 
Mike, I have notyhing against the ratings, I rate all my albums, I believe a good rating is a visual aid for a review but nothing more, I'm not obsessed if an album is Nº 1 or Nº 12454,, that's the difference, I guess M@X has a llot of important things to do to be constantly behind the ratings and the numbers, this is not a rating site, this is a review site, reviews are collateral.
 
As a prove that I care in some degree about ratings and want to have the best system, i supported clearly the addition of .5 stars to be more precise (again, if we are having ratings, lets have the most accurate system), but if it never happens, it won't affect me, if Foxtrot gioes down to Nª 500, will still be my favorite album ever.
 
It intrigues me why people is pending on which band is at the top, or like the guys last week who came to manipulate the ratings and take Pink Floyd up...that's absurd IMO.
 
Iván
 
 
            
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Points: 32553 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2009 at 11:57
Tales from Topographic Oceans is in the top 20 symph now?  Shocked

Too bad Kansas fell off.  Cry
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2009 at 11:57
Originally posted by M@X M@X wrote:

I understand your point IVAN but in the end, we must "anyway" offer some kind of charts as a prog rock web site. And now, with the update algorithm and default value, I believe it's more accurate.

Opinions ?

 
Not in your case M@X, I  know you try to give the most accurate chart fopr us, and that's valuable, if we are going to have a chart, lets have the best one.
 
My question is why towards other persons who constantly live pending on the charts.. Peiople who ask, The Ratings? Why this band is 20 and this is 15? How can my favorite band not be in the top 500?
 
For God's sake, M@X does a hard job improvinmg the system, i seen iit change at least 10 times, that's a lot of work, let the man live.
 
Iván
 
 
 
 
            
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Points: 4051 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2009 at 11:57
still checking to improve things... stay tuned
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Points: 4051 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2009 at 11:55
And now ELP seems to have find a spot ...  at the 49th position !
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Points: 4051 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2009 at 11:47
UPDATE:

I have found an issue in the old and recent changes and fixed it, so expect some changes in the TOP LIST.
Details: there was 341 ghosts ratings from deleted albums that affected the weights.



NP: MARILLION "Fugazi" , what an underrated ones....
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Points: 4079 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2009 at 11:39
Originally posted by M@X M@X wrote:

I understand your point IVAN but in the end, we must "anyway" offer some kind of charts as a prog rock web site. And now, with the update algorithm and default value, I believe it's more accurate.

Opinions ?


You guys do what you have to do. In trying to understand what Ivan is getting at, in reference to non-Prog listeners trying to get into Prog, it is understandable that the most accessible has the best chance of keeping them listening. Frankly, some of the top 100 ranked albums here are way out there and will quite likely put off a new listener due to the utter bizarreness. 

For instance, I would think it would much easier to enjoy PF's Animals than Bacamarte's Depois Do Fim. That point is not to detract from the effectiveness and rating of Bacamarte's album, but merely an illustration.
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Points: 5195 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2009 at 11:35
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I believe that for a bunch of people who follow an unpopular genre which rarely is presented in charts, we care damn too much for the top list.
 
When i invite somebody to PA I don't tell him/her "Check the ratings", I tell them "Read the reviews".
 
Iván
 


You're always on a crusade against the ratings ... I think that's going a bit too far. Reviews should be more important than ratings at PA, but I don't think ignoring the ratings completely is the way to go.


Edited by Mr ProgFreak - May 16 2009 at 01:06
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Points: 4051 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2009 at 11:14
I understand your point IVAN but in the end, we must "anyway" offer some kind of charts as a prog rock web site. And now, with the update algorithm and default value, I believe it's more accurate.

Opinions ?



Edited by M@X - May 15 2009 at 11:15
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2009 at 10:58
I believe that for a bunch of people who follow an unpopular genre which rarely is presented in charts, we care damn too much for the top list.
 
When i invite somebody to PA I don't tell him/her "Check the ratings", I tell them "Read the reviews".
 
Iván
 
            
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Points: 4051 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2009 at 02:10
Many changes during the past days to the TOP PROG ALBUM tool and the sub-genre list of key albums.

Basically , the algorithm is mostly the same, it's the default value use in the calculation that have changed.

Here the updated info describing the calculations variables and filters in the TOP PROG ALBUM tool:

Here is some details about how we calculate the average rating of an album and the rank of an album.

  • Average rating: The classic calculation of the average but more weight is affected to the rating of progarchives.com collaborators and to rating with reviews.
    - Rating only: Weight = 1
    - Review by members : Weight = 5
    - Review by PA Collaborators : Weight = 10
  • Rank of an album: We use a calculation that compare an album average rating and number of ratings over all others albums in the query using this theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weighted_average)

  • By default, only albums with at the number of ratings above the average number of ratings in the query and only albums with at the average ratings above the average ratings in the query are displayed in theses lists



The results have changed in both the PA TOP 100 PROG  albums and in the sub-genre too because of the changes in the default variables.

Please post your sugg. and comments here.
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