Defining Prog- The Eternal Question - Progressive Rock Music Forum

I've never thought of Led Zep as prog until recently. They were like heavy rock to me. But with songs like "No Quarter" yes, in my opinion it is prog. Chord changes, mood changes, instrumentation changes as well as vocal changes in a song can be prog. Not every song from the giants of prog ie. Genesis, Yes are prog. Even from selling England by the Pound you have "More Fool Me" a wonderful song but no prog imo. Today, Dream Theater does some prog. Transatlantic? Nearly 100% prog. Flower Kings the same. You are correct on pop description.

You know Prog when you hear it.

DEFINING PROG- THE ETERNAL QUESTION

The inspiration for this article arose out of the unexpected controversy I encountered while marketing my band’s first album, Total B.S.’ “2 the Core,” to the progressive rock community. I was surprised to discover there was a question as to whether we qualified as ‘Prog’ due to some unconventional influences that are prevalent in our music.

When I joined up with Blair to form Total B.S., I was sure I was getting into a serious “Progressive Rock” outfit… if not even fusion. At the time I was going through a bit of an identity crisis with my singing but was absolutely thrilled with my new association. From my perspective, being in a ‘Progressive Rock’ band… making progressive rock music was the best thing that could’ve happened to me short of actually being Robert Plant fronting Led Zeppelin.

I soon came to learn that Blair was a self proclaimed “Progger.” I had never considered myself a progger specifically. Yeah, I loved Progressive Rock… “YES” had a major impact on me… and the few songs I had heard from ELP, Dixie Dregs and King Crimson prompted me to pick up their “best of” releases... but ultimately, I considered myself more of a rocker than anything. Bottom line… this whole progressive rock movement… the community and of course... all the subsequent bands and sub subgenres that spawned from those greats that had left everlasting impressions on me and ultimately started the movement were all foreign and new information on me.

In our efforts to promote the band, the progressive rock community seemed an obvious starting point. Now… call me naïve, but I had no idea this was such an exclusive club. I’ve been around a lot of musicians in my time… and there is certainly an inherent attitude among those in the club… metal heads can be very difficult… but I have to admit… it’s been a little tenuous navigating my way. I’ve concertedly utilized every shred of diplomacy, finesse and political correctedness, in my power, to gain favor.

Regarding the progressive rock phenomena and all the related subgenres... it has come to my attention that Progressive Rock didn’t exist as a musical category until years after it’s forefathers had forged the music that would define the genre. At the time when the late 60’s were bridging into the new decade… any song that was played on AM radio was considered pop music… where FM radio played the underground artists. Singles from Yes, ELP, and Led Zeppelin were common fare on the AM radio station alongside Elvis and Beatles hits. I’ll take the liberty of coining a new term I’ll call “Pop Prog” as it relates to music that’s played on the popular radio station. The way I see it… progressive music has bridged the gap between pop music and underground music… fostering the path to more sophisticated music that may or may not be embraced by massive sectors of the population.

These days, to define Prog seems to be akin to finding the holy grail… that which is elusive if not unattainable…but always worth the chase. I see forum topics addressed over and over again bearing titles like “Is Pink Floyd prog?”

So… I think to myself, what IS Prog?”… and… what makes Me more qualified to define Prog that the next analytical mind? Nothing… but I’m going to take a swipe at it.

Let’s analyze the term first… “Progressive Rock” What does it mean literally? Webster defines ‘progressive’ as characterized by reform… so… in essence… constant change. I always thought of progressive rock as unconventional and constantly changing, happily absent of the “verse, chorus, verse, chorus” monotony ever prevalent in most pop music arrangements.

Classic Prog might be characterized by classic synthesizer sounds; the Moog with its haunting tones, the Prophet 5… shrill and precise, the crass howl of the leslies spinning on the Hammond B3, the pristine and poignant tones of the Fender Rhodes… they all smack of the progressive rock of old that once defined the genre. What about the Concept album?... the side length epic track?... the long intro, solo, and outro sections?... all signature progressive movements.

When I think of progressive rock music I think of the dynamic shifts and bursts of strategically engineered sound… the surprise changes, the sudden starts and stops. I analyze for form and sense circular arrangements with beginnings, middles and endings… sections characterized by multi segment passes, parts bridged by dramatic transitions and turnovers. Cerebral, thought provoking song themes, concepts and lyrics float across sophisticated and highly orchestrated harmonic cacophony. It’s not so much about style, but about adventure and surprise.

So… dare I say… I am a Progger… because I love adventure and embrace change. Whether my band will be embraced by the progressive rock community as a whole remains to be seen… but that’s truly a side note to an even larger question… Is Pink Floyd PROG???

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Steven Brodziak Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: November 24 2010 Location: usa Status: Offline Points: 488	Posted: December 13 2010 at 00:45
	I've never thought of Led Zep as prog until recently. They were like heavy rock to me. But with songs like "No Quarter" yes, in my opinion it is prog. Chord changes, mood changes, instrumentation changes as well as vocal changes in a song can be prog. Not every song from the giants of prog ie. Genesis, Yes are prog. Even from selling England by the Pound you have "More Fool Me" a wonderful song but no prog imo. Today, Dream Theater does some prog. Transatlantic? Nearly 100% prog. Flower Kings the same. You are correct on pop description. You know Prog when you hear it.

TheOppenheimer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: May 29 2010 Location: Buenos Aires Status: Offline Points: 228	Posted: December 13 2010 at 00:20
	if you consider yourself prog, maybe you're prog. if you consider X band prog, maybe it's prog. anyway, you should not fight for falling into the 'prog' label, but for making music that you love, and for loving the music that you make. take it easy on yourself, no one can define a music genre, but anyone can create it
	//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// A veces es cuestión de esperar, y tomarte en silencio.

sararocksprog Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Groupie Joined: October 25 2010 Location: Los Angeles Status: Offline Points: 47	Posted: December 12 2010 at 23:52
	DEFINING PROG- THE ETERNAL QUESTION The inspiration for this article arose out of the unexpected controversy I encountered while marketing my band’s first album, Total B.S.’ “2 the Core,” to the progressive rock community. I was surprised to discover there was a question as to whether we qualified as ‘Prog’ due to some unconventional influences that are prevalent in our music. When I joined up with Blair to form Total B.S., I was sure I was getting into a serious “Progressive Rock” outfit… if not even fusion. At the time I was going through a bit of an identity crisis with my singing but was absolutely thrilled with my new association. From my perspective, being in a ‘Progressive Rock’ band… making progressive rock music was the best thing that could’ve happened to me short of actually being Robert Plant fronting Led Zeppelin. I soon came to learn that Blair was a self proclaimed “Progger.” I had never considered myself a progger specifically. Yeah, I loved Progressive Rock… “YES” had a major impact on me… and the few songs I had heard from ELP, Dixie Dregs and King Crimson prompted me to pick up their “best of” releases... but ultimately, I considered myself more of a rocker than anything. Bottom line… this whole progressive rock movement… the community and of course... all the subsequent bands and sub subgenres that spawned from those greats that had left everlasting impressions on me and ultimately started the movement were all foreign and new information on me. In our efforts to promote the band, the progressive rock community seemed an obvious starting point. Now… call me naïve, but I had no idea this was such an exclusive club. I’ve been around a lot of musicians in my time… and there is certainly an inherent *attitude* among those in the club… metal heads can be very difficult… but I have to admit… it’s been a little tenuous navigating my way. I’ve concertedly utilized every shred of diplomacy, finesse and political correctedness, in my power, to gain favor. Regarding the progressive rock phenomena and all the related subgenres... it has come to my attention that Progressive Rock didn’t exist as a musical category until years after it’s forefathers had forged the music that would define the genre. At the time when the late 60’s were bridging into the new decade… any song that was played on AM radio was considered pop music… where FM radio played the underground artists. Singles from Yes, ELP, and Led Zeppelin were common fare on the AM radio station alongside Elvis and Beatles hits. I’ll take the liberty of coining a new term I’ll call “Pop Prog” as it relates to music that’s played on the popular radio station. The way I see it… progressive music has bridged the gap between pop music and underground music… fostering the path to more sophisticated music that may or may not be embraced by massive sectors of the population. These days, to define Prog seems to be akin to finding the holy grail… that which is elusive if not unattainable…but always worth the chase. I see forum topics addressed over and over again bearing titles like “Is Pink Floyd prog?” So… I think to myself, what IS Prog?”… and… what makes Me more qualified to define Prog that the next analytical mind? Nothing… but I’m going to take a swipe at it. Let’s analyze the term first… “Progressive Rock” What does it mean literally? Webster defines ‘progressive’ as characterized by reform… so… in essence… *constant change. I always thought* of progressive rock as unconventional and constantly changing, happily absent of the “verse, chorus, verse, chorus” monotony ever prevalent in most pop music arrangements. Classic Prog might be characterized by classic synthesizer sounds; the Moog with its haunting tones, the Prophet 5… shrill and precise, the crass howl of the leslies spinning on the Hammond B3, the pristine and poignant tones of the Fender Rhodes… they all smack of the progressive rock of old that once defined the genre. What about the Concept album?... the side length epic track?... the long intro, solo, and outro sections?... all signature progressive movements. When I think of progressive rock music I think of the dynamic shifts and bursts of strategically engineered sound… the surprise changes, the sudden starts and stops. I analyze for form and sense circular arrangements with beginnings, middles and endings… sections characterized by multi segment passes, parts bridged by dramatic transitions and turnovers. Cerebral, thought provoking song themes, concepts and lyrics float across sophisticated and highly orchestrated harmonic cacophony. It’s not so much about style, but about adventure and surprise. So… dare I say… *I am a Progger… because I love adventure and embrace change. Whether my band will be embraced by the progressive rock community as a whole remains to be seen… but that’s truly a side note to an even larger question… Is Pink Floyd PROG*???