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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: November 30 2010 at 01:53 |
ELP were my favourite band of the seventies. I adored them with a fervour and passion bordering on the fanatical. Genesis and Rush came close to supplanting them at some time but ELP will always be one of my all time favourite bands.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28064
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Posted: November 30 2010 at 01:48 |
KABSA wrote:
i always thought that the `live album` welcome back... was a poor stadium sound
then i found the `hardback` edition .... wow
digital mix [one of the first]
the sound is terrific
what was once a poor lp , now is something wicked
? what of the cd reissues , which mix is used ? |
Some of the Welcome Back live tracks are available as 'straight from boards' mix (KE9 and Hoedown). You can find them on the bonus live disc for 'The Ultimate Collection' and they sound great.
I do like the deluxe editions of Pictures At An Exhibition and Welcome back. Not so convinced about the BSS and Works releases although you do get all of Works (Volumes one and two) in the deluxe edition which is nice.
Recently I got the Atlantic Years compilation that was released in 1992. I wanted it for the artwork and also to compare the sound with the recent remasters. Quite shocked at just how good the sound is and makes me realise that all these reissues add very little to be perfectly honest.
Now I'm searching for the Atlantic CD mixes of all ELP albums up to and inc Works Volume One that were released in 1990. I stupidly gave them away about 15 years ago thinking they were redundant. Doh!
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The Wrinkler
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 03 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 638
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Posted: November 30 2010 at 01:44 |
^ I felt the same way before... except Lake's voice, I've always liked it. It'll grow on you . Trilogy is a good consistent, and fun album to get those ELP juices flowing into your blood!
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RMR
Forum Newbie
Joined: November 27 2010
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 11
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 22:07 |
Well, It looks like I'm in the minority here, but ELP never did it for me. My main problem is that their classical influence overshadows their rocking side. Case in point would be songs like "Toccata" and "Jerusalem," which I find incredibly boring, and if it's not the classical pieces, they seem to have too many joke pieces like "Are you Ready Eddy," Benny the Bouncer," and "The Sheriff"... I just don't see enough substance.
I think they are fantastic individual players, but not a good band. I also really don't like Greg's voice. I think his finest moment was signing" 21st Century," and that was through a megaphone.
I will say I love "Tarkus," and I think it's a perfect 10. How's that for contradiction.
Post Script: I also like most of "Karn Evil" as well, but when the computer starts talking at the end, it just kills it for me.
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KABSA
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 09 2010
Location: midlands
Status: Offline
Points: 154
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 17:20 |
i always thought that the `live album` welcome back... was a poor stadium sound then i found the `hardback` edition .... wow digital mix [one of the first] the sound is terrific what was once a poor lp , now is something wicked
? what of the cd reissues , which mix is used ?
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28064
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 15:42 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
My opinion
- Capable of releasing masterpieces: Trilogy and BSS
- Capable of releasing mediocre albums Works I and Black Moon
- Guilty of releasing terrible albums like Love Beach, Works II and In the Hot Seat
- Criminally responsible of releasing pure crap (one of the few times I use this term) like Re-Works (Brain Salad Perjury).
- They reached their peak too soon
- They lost it also too soon
- Genesis had an excuse for the 80's (no Hackett and Gabriel), ELP had no excuse.
Iván |
Ivan ,at least ELP had a peak! A couple of 'masterpeices' is not bad in my book.
I'm puzzled by a few things in your post.
Firstly when did Brain Salad Perjury become part of ELP's back catologue?
As I understand it (ignoring ELPowell and all the compilations and box sets) this is it:
Emerson,Lake and Palmer
Tarkus
Pictures At An Exhibition
Trilogy
Brain Salad Surgery
Welcome Back My Friends To The Show That Never Ends
Works Volume One
Works Volume Two
Love Beach
In Concert (reissued as Works Live)
Black Moon
Live At The Royal Albert Hall
In The Hot Seat
Also the last comment about Genesis. What does this mean exactly? Are you saying that ELP were more talented than the 3 man line up of Genesis? Even as an ELP fan I'm not sure I agree.Would call it a draw.
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silverpot
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: March 19 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 841
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Posted: November 29 2010 at 15:03 |
I like ELP a lot and every album (well, at least the first five) has some wonderful moments and some great moments but also parts I don't at all appreciate. The interesting thing is that the first four studio albums are very similar, so I guess rogerthat is right, the first album was as good as it got.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: November 28 2010 at 03:51 |
I haven't heard If I would do it all over again...., don't know that I want to given I didn't like its more illustrious successor from 1971 so much. I want to listen to that Egg album though, strikingly like ELP indeed. I like Trespass and In the Wake of Poseidon but deliberately didn't bring them up because I don't consider them better than the ELP debut. In the Wake..is too much in Court's shadow and Genesis are still finding their feet on Trespass and Hackett and Collins would give their music much needed propulsion. Regardless, the year of ELP's debut remains the year for me when they came out strongest against other releases. With each passing year, there were more and more great albums but ELP didn't get all that better.
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topographicbroadways
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 20 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 5575
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Posted: November 27 2010 at 12:29 |
rogerthat wrote:
jammun wrote:
...they were for a brief time the finest progressive rock band on the planet, Yes and Crimson and Floyd notwithstanding. |
Let's see, I will chalk up their albums with the other great albums of their year of release.
1970 (s/t) - Third and H to He to contend with. Coin toss between ELP and Third, H to He pips both.
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You write off so many equally memorable albums here.
King Crimson's In The Wake... in my opinion stronger and more complete than it's predecessor
Trespass maybe Hackett and Collinsless but it is one of Genesis' finest.
Gentle Giants Debut needs no explanation
Egg's self titled debut is easy to compare to ELP an upcoming prog trio exploring amazing new musical styles
And you mentioned Third but forgot the real canterbury classic from that year - Caravan's If I Could Do It All Over Again... This album can't be forgotten, in my opinion the finest work from Canterbury scene
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Tychovski
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 19 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 249
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Posted: November 27 2010 at 11:35 |
I loved them at first - then went through a long period where they represented to me everything that was wrong with progressive music. I've recently come back around however. Currently I love listening to them, but I cant watch them or those old feelings start coming back.
Edited by Tychovski - November 28 2010 at 09:57
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Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974, it's a scientific fact.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: November 27 2010 at 10:56 |
jammun wrote:
...they were for a brief time the finest progressive rock band on the planet, Yes and Crimson and Floyd notwithstanding. |
Let's see, I will chalk up their albums with the other great albums of their year of release.
1970 (s/t) - Third and H to He to contend with. Coin toss between ELP and Third, H to He pips both.
1971 (Tarkus) - Brilliant album, my favourite from ELP, but will take Meddle, Acquiring The Taste, Nursery Cryme and Aqualung over it.
1972 (Trilogy) - Never been one of my favourites and this is another very strong year for prog. Close to the Edge, Foxtrot, Thick as a Brick, Octopus. Blown away.
1973 (Brain Salad Surgery) - My second favourite ELP album but once again, plenty of amazing albums to choose from - Dark Side, Selling England by The Pound, Larks Tongue in Aspic, In A Glass House. Nope.
Haven't heard both Works albums and though the ratings don't suggest anything to choose over Wind and Wuthering, Novella, Animals, A Farewell to Kings or Going for the One, I won't comment. I am actually quite 'lenient' on Love Beach and would take it over Tormato and And Then There Were Three but not over Song for All Seasons and certainly not over Hemispheres. There's also Canterbury's last stand Of Queues and Cures to be contended with.
In summary, they frequently put it over one or other of the best prog rock bands and deserve to be mentioned alongside them - which they are in any case! - but never quite got to the very top. Their start was very strong, not to mention influential, but they don't seem to have grown from thereon and not after Tarkus at any rate. Genesis and Yes went from strength to strength from their own modest starts and KC had a monstrous second coming. A band with enormous talent and potential but, as harsh as it may be to say so, perhaps they didn't quite make the most of it.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: November 27 2010 at 08:58 |
Well, I haven't mention all the albums
1.- Debut: Very good 2.- Pictures at an Exhibition: Excellent and revolutionary, not a masterpiece, but still rated with 5 stars for reasons I mentioned in my review 3.- Tarkus: I find it boring and overrated (even when I hate this term), but still I recognize it has the touch of the genius 4.- Welcome Back my Friends....: One of the best live albums I ever heard, but live albums are pure performance not composition.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 27 2010 at 09:00
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AtomicCrimsonRush
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 14258
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Posted: November 27 2010 at 08:48 |
Best ELP
1st.... Welcome Back My Friends To The Show That Never Ends
(2nd BRAIN SALAD SURGERY; 3rd TARKUS)
4th... Trilogy
5th... debut
6th.... Works, side 4
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AtomicCrimsonRush
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 14258
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Posted: November 27 2010 at 08:46 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
My opinion
- Capable of releasing masterpieces: Trilogy and BSS
- Capable of releasing mediocre albums Works I and Black Moon
- Guilty of releasing terrible albums like Love Beach, Works II and In the Hot Seat
- Criminally responsible of releasing pure crap (one of the few times I use this term) like Re-Works (Brain Salad Perjury).
- They reached their peak too soon
- They lost it also too soon
- Genesis had an excuse for the 80's (no Hackett and Gabriel), ELP had no excuse.
Iván |
Cruel but true
I agree that ELP are a band you can love and hate in intervals
one year they are brilliant the next they lose their focus. Overall though the band are indispensable
After hearing Take A Pebble, it was the first time I knew I had heard genuine prog music. I was only 15.
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Hawkwise
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 31 2008
Location: Ontairo
Status: Offline
Points: 4119
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Posted: November 27 2010 at 07:47 |
Those First 4(studio) albums are wonderful wonderful records i have never listen to any of the others so wouldn't know but i do know i love those first 4 albums .
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616
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Posted: November 27 2010 at 06:44 |
I would also consider the debut album as a masterpiece. There is no weak track on it. The classical 'covers' like "The Barbarian" and "Knife Edge" are wonderful, "Take A Pebble" is ELP's first classic (more or less) epic track, "The Three Fates" showed Emerson's unique talent for composition and soloing, "Tank" was a unique track, because of the way it was put together and the texture (synth sounds) and "Lucky Man" showed Lake's sense for melody and Emerson's instinctive talents for his soloing - at - the - spot on the Moog.
It's interesting, though, that Carl Palmer in an interview said that he couldn't understand why the first record was an instant smash. He said he didn't like organ drenched pieces like "The Three Fates". Personally, I love the track, but I can see his point. BSS shows best what ELP could do as a group. In that respect it's also interesting to look at a moment of group rehearsal for "Karn Evil 9" on the Beyond The Beginning dvd , where you can see that on the one hand Emerson was dominating the group clearly, but on the other hand that the group was nevertheless a tight working unit, really giving 100% to deliver a masterpiece.
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darksideof
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 22 2007
Location: Newark N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 2318
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Posted: November 26 2010 at 21:34 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
My opinion- Capable of releasing masterpieces: Trilogy and BSS
- Capable of releasing mediocre albums Works I and Black Moon
- Guiltye of releasing terrible albums like Love Beach, Works II and In the Hot Seat
- Criminally responsible of releasing pure crap (one of the few times I use this term) like Re-Works (Brain Salad Perjury).
- They reached their peak too soon
- They lost it also too soon
- Genesis had an excuse for the 80's (no Hackett and Gabriel), ELP had no excuse.
Iván
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So cruel.
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http://darksideofcollages.blogspot.com/
http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Darksideof-Collages/
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: November 26 2010 at 20:57 |
My opinion - Capable of releasing masterpieces: Trilogy and BSS
- Capable of releasing mediocre albums Works I and Black Moon
- Guilty of releasing terrible albums like Love Beach, Works II and In the Hot Seat
- Criminally responsible of releasing pure crap (one of the few times I use this term) like Re-Works (Brain Salad Perjury).
- They reached their peak too soon
- They lost it also too soon
- Genesis had an excuse for the 80's (no Hackett and Gabriel), ELP had no excuse.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 26 2010 at 21:37
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: November 26 2010 at 20:19 |
My friends, we've been down this road many times before. I'll keep saying it...they were for a brief time the finest progressive rock band on the planet, Yes and Crimson and Floyd notwithstanding. As has been the case for many rock bands, and that is what they were at best -- a rock band -- they lost their way. But there 's no reason to dismiss those first four or five albums, which if there's some open ears about, are amongst the best ever recorded, warts and all.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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jean-marie
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: FRANCE
Status: Offline
Points: 2585
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Posted: November 26 2010 at 18:48 |
About ELP, i'm in love with the two T, TARKUS and TRILOGY are my happiness, i just remenber when i discovered them, i was 17, i was waiting for APHRODITE'S CHILD 666 release (prohibed at the time ) and a school friend brought me TARKUS what a revelation!!!so great keyboard work and sounds, i think their live performances are sometimes a bit too much but i still love their records.I even like the ones nobody like ,like emerson lake and powel
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